Darren Jamieson: On this week’s episode of The Engaging Marketeer, I’m speaking to David Angel — The Sales Angel. David helps people with their sales process, which is great for us because people come to Engage Web wanting more business, but they don’t necessarily have the sales conversion skills to make that work. Someone like David can improve their sales conversions so they’re then in a position to get more leads and enquiries from someone like Engage Web.
[01:08]
Darren Jamieson: So let’s speak to David about how he does that and find out just how passionate he is about sales. David, you help people with their sales processes. What’s the biggest mistake businesses tend to make when it comes to making a sale or attempting to make a sale?
[01:30]
David Angel: Thanks for having me on. A lot of people forget that every time we open our mouth, it has an impact. It either increases or reduces resistance; increases or reduces flow. People get caught up in how much time they’ve spent building a business and the blood, sweat, and tears they’ve put into it — and don’t focus on the person at the other end, helping them fix or identify what the problem, solution, need, or want actually is.
[02:04]
David Angel: The majority come across desperate in business without realising it — pushing a product, idea, or plan: “My idea is the best.” Instead, take time to understand what someone really wants and needs, to a level where that person wants to move forward. The first step is selling someone on the idea of making a change, before you try to sell them on you. Most people jump straight to, “Work with me; I’m the best,” but nobody believes that — the 50th-best company never says they’re 50th.
[03:09]
David Angel: Most people never take the time to understand how others want to buy. We don’t even fully understand how we ourselves buy. We think, “I made that decision,” but we’re sold ideas and beliefs that we just own as our own. Great marketing sells you without you realising it — and when you don’t understand that, you get no results.
[03:54]
Darren Jamieson: You mentioned desperation. If someone needs the sale, that whiff of desperation must be really off-putting for the person they’re selling to?
[04:11]
David Angel: One hundred percent. We call it commission breath. If you can smell commission breath on someone — all “I, I, we do this, we do that; I need it” — it’s like dating: if you’re needy, no one’s impressed. The less needy and more impartial you are, the better.
[04:41]
David Angel: Whether your business is brand new or the biggest in the country, the goal is the same: how can I help this person move from where they are now to the next stage? Help enough people do that and you attract more business. People don’t care how hard you’ve worked; they care about the likelihood you’ll deliver, the result, the price, and whether they’ll look silly for choosing you.
[05:28]
Darren Jamieson: The dating analogy is interesting — there are a lot of similarities between sales and dating.
[05:38]
David Angel: Massive. We want to imagine that turning up as a good, hardworking person is enough. Realistically, it isn’t. Those are just standards. We’re in a time of entitlement — “I deserve this because of my struggle” — but you still have to earn the right and be of value.
[06:33]
David Angel: Especially for guys: as teenagers you’ll lose girlfriends to older, richer, more successful people. You gain value as you get into your 20s and 30s. In business you can shorten that time: become valuable faster by putting the spotlight on the other person — “Where are you now? Where do you want to get to? You could get there on your own; I might get you there quicker, with less stress.”
[07:28]
David Angel: It’s like walking from London to Birmingham: you can do it, but if I’ve got a car, you might pay to save the time and hassle. Businesses cut learning time. In dating and relationships, we rarely take time to realise what the other person wants or how we’re coming across.
[08:04]
Darren Jamieson: There’s that Jordan Belfort clip: “Sell me this pen.” People immediately say, “This is the greatest pen,” and the first thing they do is lie.
[08:38]
David Angel: Exactly. People say, “It’s limited edition; golden ink,” and 90% of them start with a lie because they’re desperate to sell. They don’t ask the simple question: do you need a pen? Sales is like saying “sports” — inbound, outbound, B2B, B2C, high ticket, low ticket. Context matters. Are you in a high-end gallery selling a £5,000 pen held by Churchill, or a 10-pack of biros on a student campus? Without context, you set people up to fail.
[10:07]
Darren Jamieson: And nobody asks the questions — they just start the spiel.
[10:13]
David Angel: Right. People ask survey-style questions: height, age, requirements, budget. You need to go three levels deeper. “Do you need a pen? — Yes.” Why? What for? Is it a gift? What type do you usually buy? Every question identifies location, need, and want. If someone wants an heirloom, a £2,000 Montblanc might make sense; if it’s for a four-year-old who’ll chew the end, it won’t. Ask wrong questions and you add resistance; you hear words but miss meaning.
[12:15]
Darren Jamieson: How do you help people get over the moment where they ask for the sale or state the price?
[12:34]
David Angel: Selling one-to-one, one-to-many, on the phone, face-to-face, from stage — all different. Stage selling isn’t my specialty. Over the phone or face-to-face, if it’s £10,000 and you haven’t established want/need, you’ll feel uncomfortable. If the value is clear, the price feels natural — like a box that prints £100,000 a month priced at £10,000. If the box is cloudy, £10,000 feels risky. People often rush to the pitch and then feel awkward asking for money because the buyer isn’t ready.
[15:01]
David Angel: If someone asks, “How much is it?” I often reply with a question before I answer. “Money aside — if you don’t like it there’s no point buying — do you think this gets you from A to B like you said?” “Yes.” “What makes it better than what you’d do elsewhere? Why is that important?” Go deeper, then: “You think it takes you from £100k/month to £500k/month, helps you scale — is exchanging that for £9,400 a good trade?” I haven’t jumped to card details; I’ve gauged how they feel, then trickled into the close.
[16:06]
Darren Jamieson: So you’re getting a yes on value before price.
[16:12]
David Angel: Yes — and why they want it. You’ll feel when someone flips from interested to potential buyer — they lean in and ask ownership questions. Objections aren’t bad; they signal where they are. With high-ticket items, questions are normal. Treat early questions as objection prevention rather than late objection handling.
[19:22]
Darren Jamieson: So objections are good — they let you delve deeper and differentiate.
[19:29]
David Angel: One hundred percent. Early in the conversation, surface thoughts and feelings so they’re not silently linking everything you say to “this will be expensive.” If I say early, “We’re not the cheapest. I only want you to do this if it returns more than it costs. If I can prove it’s an asset, are you open?” — now you’re engaged. If you wait until the end, it feels like a one-night stand: you try to change perspective and ask for the order in one hit.
[21:44]
Darren Jamieson: Some salespeople worry about “putting ideas in their head” by raising objections early. Hard to coach them past that?
[22:02]
David Angel: Listen to the language: “I don’t want to… I don’t feel…” It’s not about what you want; it’s about what they need. We’re professionals guiding people to solutions. Like a nurse — they do what’s best for the patient even if the patient doesn’t like needles. Put ego aside and ask what they need to make a good decision.
[23:40]
Darren Jamieson: Same with websites — clients say, “I want blue; I want these pages,” but the site isn’t for them; it’s for their clients.
[23:52]
David Angel: Exactly. You shouldn’t be on your website much. It’s for prospects. Make it so good you rarely need to look. I have sites I haven’t visited in two years — they work; I focus on calls.
[27:02]
Darren Jamieson: A panel once said Amazon isn’t well-designed. I said it’s the best-designed site because it’s the most efficient at taking money.
[27:34]
David Angel: Right — design is fitness for purpose. I wouldn’t frame a can of petrol on the wall, but it’s handy in a car. Amazon’s job is to draw us in and get us out with a purchase, often. People may say they dislike it and still buy because the want outweighs the pain.
[29:03]
David Angel: In sales, aim to make not using you more painful than using you. No one likes paying me. They thank me 12 weeks later when they’ve gone from £30k to £200k a month. I tell people: you won’t enjoy paying, but you’ll be telling people for years that you’re glad you did.
[30:25]
Darren Jamieson: For business owners — cold calling, inbound, presentations — what can you look at to help them go from £30k to £200k a month?
[30:42]
David Angel: We work in 19 industries. Typical two-call close: appointment setting to pitch/close; deals from £2.5k to £50k. In solar, many are electricians pivoting to £10k “want” purchases. We take companies converting 2–3 in 10 to 70% by rarely talking product until they want it. Solar is the vehicle; people care about not renting electricity, retirement, price hikes, control.
[32:08]
David Angel: Example: instead of “What’s your bill?” — “It’s £170” — and then jumping to product, get them to calculate past, present, and projected bills: “What was it five years ago? What percentage rise is that? Where in five years? In ten, in retirement?” Let them do the maths so they feel the problem. When they realise “£320/month in five years,” the itch is aggravated — they see the real perspective and act.
[33:31]
David Angel: That, plus better appointment-setting calls (5 more minutes to explore bill history, goals, prior attempts, comfort with a house visit), takes show-rate from 3–4/10 to 6–7/10, and close rate from 2–3/10 to 6–7/10. Same leads, 10x revenue, just saying different things in a different order focused on the other person.
[35:42]
Darren Jamieson: I love getting them to work it out — then it’s their realisation, not you telling them.
[36:13]
David Angel: Exactly. When you do the numbers yourself you ping-pong: “Is that right? No… yes… oh that’s a problem — we need to change.” In seconds you shift emotionally because you concluded it. We’re not making the problem bigger; we’re making it accurate. People downplay problems.
[37:42]
Darren Jamieson: I wish everyone worked with someone like you.
[37:49]
David Angel: I wish they did too — I’d be very rich. Many ask for “more sales.” If they can’t sell now, more leads just add stress. Low win-rate kills confidence and execution. With belief and a 7/10 conversion expectation, you visualise the win and perform better. A great recipe still fails if you bake six minutes instead of 20 — poor execution ruins outcomes.
[39:01]
David Angel: We often find answers are there but higgledy-piggledy. People elevate resistance without realising. They deserve the business they sketched on a napkin — but desperation worsens results. Sales is a skill; communication is a skill. Don’t bet mortgage payments on luck — get the skills to move the business forward so you can make more, work less, and improve your life.
[41:01]
Darren Jamieson: We can improve website conversion to enquiry, but not their human sales close rate.
David Angel: People don’t realise the power in their voice and words. Look at how people carry themselves — eye contact, posture. Practice small interactions: walk your high street and purposefully make eye contact and give a compliment — “Morning, nice shoes.” Do it consistently and your sales confidence grows. I used to think everyone was miserable until I realised the world mirrored how I acted.
[42:55]
Darren Jamieson: There’s a comedian — same name as the skateboarder, Tony Hawk — he films himself greeting people with compliments. The reactions are fascinating.
[43:13]
David Angel: Right. Contrast that with charity “chuggers” who open with, “Can I ask you a question?” — which is itself a question. Open with something engaging; focus on great introductions, making friends, compliments, eye contact, smiles. If you fixate on rejection, you tighten up and your voice drops — now even you don’t want to talk to you.
[44:59]
Darren Jamieson: Can anyone learn to sell?
[45:05]
David Angel: If we say “become a better communicator,” yes. We teach three pillars: mindset, skill set, habits. If mindset sucks, skills and habits won’t stick. If you have great habits but no skill and poor mindset, you’ll be active, not productive. Confidence isn’t bottled — it comes from belief built by reps. If you wait to feel confident before acting, you’ll never start; do the thing consistently and avoid repeating mistakes, and life improves.
[46:34]
Darren Jamieson: Beyond solar, what industries do you work with — or want to?
[46:47]
David Angel: Nineteen industries across nine countries: private education in the States; companies like PMP selling curricula into schools (£250k deals); coaches, consultants, recruitment, training, insurance, solar, flooring, heating/boilers. Inbound and outbound. My big thing: if you sell phone/face-to-face with an appointment-setting step, and your price is >£2.5k, we can likely help. My social posts rarely mention product — it’s beliefs, confidence, processes, and perspective shifts. Transferable.
[48:15]
David Angel: A TikTok lead asked if what we did would work for solar. We tried it. One client went from £30k/month (no sales team) to £250k/month, heading to £700–£750k/month. With ~30% margins: from £9k profit/month to a £3m/year business, just by systems, skills, and coachability. That changes quality of life — holidays, time off, team, automation — less guilt stepping away.
[50:03]
Darren Jamieson: Improve conversion first, then get more leads — otherwise you just get busy.
[50:09]
David Angel: Car analogy: you can buy a brand-new race car for £500k, or upgrade a 3-series to M3-like performance. No point pouring more fuel (leads) into a slow car — fix tyres, suspension, engine, aero. Then train the driver. Some great drivers get decent lap times in poor cars; most people think a “good car” solves everything and they still crash. We build the asset (sales system), then give skills and processes, training manuals, so you can replace yourself with an appointment setter and a closer, and get your time back.
[51:32]
Darren Jamieson: Replacing yourself in the sales process is key — otherwise you’re tied to it.
[51:37]
David Angel: Exactly. We build training manuals, scripts, and keep all the trainings. Phase 1: revenue inside 28 days — re-engage pipeline; close some deals. Use that money to run an advert (we create it), then hire an appointment setter. Get yourself out of setting; spend more time closing; then hire a closer. Now you have an aligned business and can move forward. It sounds simple because it took years of mistakes to refine. We avoid multi-year enterprise cycles; we prefer two-stage processes with quick wins.
[52:58]
David Angel: If a solar company’s been getting 30 leads/month for 6 months but not closing, we script a re-engagement sprint: what to say, what to send, what to do when X happens. One client doing £10k/month did £40k in 8 days — four months’ volume — because they were only 5% off on a handful of deals. The prospects still had pain points and liked them; they just hadn’t followed up correctly.
[54:16]
Darren Jamieson: For those wanting a piece of this, what’s the best way to get in touch?
[54:22]
David Angel: We built a system so you don’t need to jump on a call immediately. Go to tusta.co.uk (The Ultimate Sales Training Academy). Add your details, watch a 10-minute explainer video — who we help, how we help. Then book a call. We also have an AI chatbot, Frank, who can have full conversations with you. If you think me joining as your salesperson would make you more money than you make now, then you know we can teach you to do the same.
[55:34]
Darren Jamieson: Fantastic. I’ll put the link below this podcast so you can click straight through and speak to David. Thank you for being a guest.
[55:40]
David Angel: Thanks, mate — really enjoyed it.
