[00:14] Darren Jamieson:
They certainly want to increase their income. They want more freedom and they want more time. Getting more money from your time. And by doing that, you will have more time to focus on how you’re going to grow your business.
[00:31] Rod Kuchta:
Control what you can control. If your staff inevitably are going to leave, they will really leave if they’re dissatisfied with what they’re doing.
[00:40] Darren Jamieson:
Begin with the questions that your potential customers are asking about your service, your industry, your offer.
[00:48] Darren Jamieson:
On this week’s episode of The Engaging Marketeer, I am speaking to Rod Kuchta, who is a business coach that helps UK-based small businesses take back control of their businesses, their lives and their time. So I’m going to be having the age-old discussion with Rod about what happens when businesses don’t do this. What happens when businesses insist on maintaining control and not empowering their staff? What happens when businesses are too afraid to hire, to expand, and where does that leave them when they reach that inevitable retirement?
So you’ve helped businesses with their streamlining, getting themselves better, and basically growing and expanding. Is that a fair assessment of what it is?
[01:28] Rod Kuchta:
It’s a fair assessment, but there’s a greater mix than that. It can commonly be business owners who started their business with a vision in mind. This is what I want this business to return to me.
Inevitably what happens is the business owner then gets into the day-to-day of running their business. And when you’re stuck in the middle of running that business, it gives you very little time and capacity to work out how you’re going to grow it.
So inevitably owners come to me when they’re in a situation of what I can best describe as completely stuck.
I started this with a vision in mind. I have no idea how far I am from that vision because all I do every day is come into work and work has become a job. It absorbs all of my time. It doesn’t pay me enough. A lot of the time it’s not structured well enough for me to do anything with and I just don’t know what to do to change it.
And that’s not uncommon, because that’s what I call being trapped in the storm.
[02:39] Darren Jamieson:
Do you find most businesses, or business owners I should say, actually start their business with a vision rather than just fall into it by accident?
[02:48] Rod Kuchta:
In my experience, business owners start with one of, or all three of, the following in mind.
They certainly want to increase their income.
They want more freedom.
And they want more time.
And inevitably it’s those three things that they set out with the vision to achieve that they fail to get because they get drawn into the business.
The first thing I do with them is always the same. Let’s find your gap.
How far are you now from what you wanted to achieve?
What are you going to do next to get there?
And what’s stopping you from taking that action?
[03:31] Darren Jamieson:
This is very similar actually to a post I’ve just put out on LinkedIn today. I know it’s about me not doing any work because people take the piss out of me in the office for doing that. But it’s true. I don’t really do anything.
When I’m at networking meetings, people ask what it is that I do. Most people will say I’m a web designer or I’m an accountant or I’m a financial adviser.
I say I don’t really do anything. I try to do as little as possible, if that’s in any way possible.
But I’ve explained how I don’t mean that flippantly. I genuinely do try to do as little as possible. It’s about scaling a business so that people do it for you.
I worked out today I’ve not designed a website in almost five years. In that time Engage Web has built over 130 websites. I’ve had no hand in any of them, even though I used to be the only person here that built websites.
I speak to loads of business owners, you probably do as well, that say I want to get off the tools. I need to get off the tools.
But what stops them from doing that? And is it industry specific? Is it trades that suffer from that more than others?
[04:37] Rod Kuchta:
Trades suffer from it quite frequently.
What you’ve managed to achieve is something that I have just shared a post about this last week which is about empowering your team. Because once your team is empowered, you are then free to focus on growing your business.
You mentioned trades there. I spoke to a new client for the first time earlier this week and he said to me, “My phone just won’t stop ringing and I’ve got too much work. I’m either turning it away or I’m giving it to other companies who do what I do, but they’re not giving me anything for it.”
So what do you think I should do?
I said, put your prices up.
“Well if I put my prices up I won’t get as many jobs.”
You won’t be giving away as much work. That much is true. But what you will be doing is getting more money from your time. And by doing that you’ll have more time to focus on how you’re going to grow your business.
That’s not uncommon either. People are too busy because they’re not charging enough money.
[05:43] Darren Jamieson:
We’ve had that exact conversation many times with clients.
“We don’t need to increase our marketing. We don’t need to do anything to get more business in because we can’t handle the business we’ve got. We’re too busy and we can’t afford it anyway.”
What do you mean you can’t afford it but you’re too busy?
Put your prices up.
“Oh no, we can’t do that because customers will stop using us.”
Then you’ll be working less for the same amount of money.
It doesn’t quite click with some people that you need to do that.
We put our prices up for a lot of our services either every one or two years and our clients know that’s happening.
You’ve got to do it. If you keep worrying about the cost and your competitors being cheaper than you, you’ll lose people to your competitors, you’ll end up working 18 or 20 hours a day for very little money and you’ll burn yourself out.
[06:42] Rod Kuchta:
If you look at the percentages on it, if a business were to increase its prices by 20% and lose 20% of its customers, its net income would still be higher than it was previously.
And they would still now have more time to focus on growing the business and attracting the customers that they actually want to work with, who will pay the prices that they require.
What you said about empowering your team is critical. Empowering them to make decisions, empowering them to take responsibility, to take ownership.
[07:25] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah. I can think of one or two businesses off the top of my head, one of them not even a trade, who refused to empower their team. They had staff, but they would not give them responsibility. They would not give them control. They wanted to control everything themselves.
They ended up with no staff and no time to do anything. Mistakes get made and things go missing.
What do you think are the big problems with businesses not being able to do this? What is it that’s stopping them from growing?
[08:01] Rod Kuchta:
Let me answer that slightly differently by explaining what happens when you do go through the empowerment experience with your team.
It’s a really positive impact all around.
First of all, the team feel trusted. They feel in control. Their emotion towards their customer completely changes, as does their behaviour. The customer then senses a confident business with happy staff, which makes them want to work with that company more often.
So that’s the outcome of doing it.
What prevents people from doing it? It’s a mix. But the most common theme is this:
“I know it will get done if I do it myself.”
“I know it will get done properly.”
But are you any good at it?
That’s the question I often ask.
How much of your time do those tasks take up? The one thing you have to start educating yourself on is to stop doing the things you’re bad at. Give them to the people who are good at them.
Trust them to do it well, but to your standard.
So there has to be a standard in place, and the owner gets to set that standard. Then what the owner is doing is checking whether the standard is being met.
Once they’ve achieved that, they’ve got an empowered team who feel happy, confident and able to make decisions.
What do they want to do then? They want to stay where they’re working.
And now we see revenue increase, profitability increase, profit can be shared with that empowered team. They’re getting paid more. They feel trusted, responsible and valuable to the company.
The outcomes are only negative if you do not set the standard that people should work to.
There’s no point saying “Right, you do that” if that person isn’t any good at it or if you haven’t given them a standard to work to.
Because you know what they’ll do? They’ll make mistakes.
Mistakes are okay, but if they make mistakes without guidance and then you blame them for doing it wrong, when you never guided them in the first place, don’t be surprised if it blows back on you.
[10:31] Darren Jamieson:
One of the things we’ve done is we’ve procedurised everything within the business.
Every task that needs to be done has processes and procedures. That way when somebody else takes it on, they know what to follow. That becomes the guidebook for the business.
So if the day comes we sell the business, they don’t need what’s in my head. Quite frankly there’s nothing in my head anyway.
If I get hit by a bus or a train, it’s not going to matter. It might matter to me obviously, and probably the train driver, but the business will continue because everything is documented.
I’ve always said that unless you really enjoy doing something in your business and get a genuine thrill out of it, if there’s someone who can do it better than you, cheaper than you or quicker than you, they should be doing it.
Not you.
[11:26] Rod Kuchta:
Absolutely agree with that completely.
And the other thing you mentioned about selling the business is really important.
If your business only exists inside your head, how much is it worth?
Nothing.
But if your business is automated, procedurised and can run efficiently without you being there, then you have something valuable.
You now have a business someone can buy.
[11:49] Darren Jamieson:
I used to see this in management roles as well.
There were certain people who thought it made them look better if everything fell apart when they went on holiday. If the department collapsed without them, they believed that meant they were brilliant.
But the best managers know the opposite is true.
If you can go away for two weeks and everything runs perfectly without you, you’ve done a great job.
[12:39] Rod Kuchta:
Sadly that’s very true and probably more common than it should be.
If I go back to the early 1990s when I first started my career, that was very common behaviour. That was the culture of business at the time.
But the best managers are those who can step outside the day-to-day role and see the bigger picture.
My background is sales and I used to lead sales teams.
When I was actively selling, things were going wrong all the time. I was constantly trying to close deals and manage problems.
But when I moved into leadership, suddenly I could see everything else around me that was causing frustration for the team.
That’s where I really built my coaching foundation, and it’s the same with business coaching today.
When I speak to clients, I can see the things they can’t see because they’re in it every day.
[14:17] Rod Kuchta:
I had an interesting meeting with a client last week. They’re early stage with me as a coaching client.
They had grown their business very quickly and it caused a lot of frustration. Things started going wrong, so they shrank the business again.
Now the owner is working 16-hour days. He’s earning good money, but he’s working constantly and it’s not sustainable.
So the planning work we’re doing is asking:
What’s the end goal?
And how do we get there?
But it begins with the owner saying, “I’m going to let that go.”
Maybe someone else won’t perform sales quite as well as he does. But if there are more salespeople speaking to more customers, the overall return will be higher.
You have to accept that.
If you can’t accept that, you’ll remain a small business that doesn’t give you the freedom or income you want.
You’ll end up frustrated and eventually hating the business.
And when the time comes to retire, you may not even be able to sell the business.
[15:37] Darren Jamieson:
Interestingly, that same person said to me, “I don’t need to worry about a pension because my house is my pension.”
Wrong.
[15:49] Rod Kuchta:
Exactly.
[15:52] Darren Jamieson:
What do you say to business owners who worry about empowering staff because they think the staff will leave and become competitors?
Richard Branson said something about this. People worry about training staff and them leaving.
But what happens if you don’t train them and they stay?
[16:36] Rod Kuchta:
You control what you can control.
If staff are going to leave, they will leave if they’re dissatisfied.
Good people will stay if they feel valued and empowered.
And if they’re truly good, you should incentivise them to stay. That might mean giving them a stake in the business.
Some owners resist that idea because they say “I’ve built this business.”
But if you keep it entirely to yourself, it will never grow into what you want it to be.
Imagine waking up on a Monday morning and deciding what you want to do with your day.
You decide whether you go to work, play golf or spend time with your family.
Why can you do that?
Because there are people in your business running it efficiently without you.
[18:20] Rod Kuchta:
Some people don’t want that shift in mindset though.
Part of the challenge of working with a business coach is accountability.
Many people simply don’t want it.
They don’t want to sit down weekly with someone and review what they said they would do.
But accountability should actually look like this:
What got in the way?
Why didn’t it happen?
What do we need to fix?
[19:17] Rod Kuchta:
In early conversations with prospective clients, I ask how they feel about accountability.
If they say they don’t want that, then they’re not ready for coaching.
Because accountability is fundamental.
[20:08] Rod Kuchta:
Accountability isn’t someone telling you what to do.
It’s helping you understand what’s getting in your way and how to overcome it.
Most business owners already know the answers to their problems. They just don’t realise they know them.
A big part of my role is helping them reach that moment of self-realisation where they say:
“I’ve got it. I know what to do next.”
[21:37] Darren Jamieson:
It’s interesting when you were saying that then. It made me realise something from a particular sales training session I attended.
From our perspective, we’ll talk to clients about their websites, their marketing, and how we can increase the number of leads they’re getting and what those leads are worth.
If we tell someone this is how much money you could make or how much your sales could increase, it doesn’t have the same impact.
If we let them work it out and they come up with the number themselves, they’re far more likely to make the decision.
Which is similar to what you said for coaching.
So are there a lot of parallels between sales and coaching?
[23:20] Rod Kuchta:
Yes, there are.
Let me explain that from my own experience.
I learned my coaching foundations through leading sales teams.
If I meet with a client during a sales process and simply tell them all the great things my service will achieve for them, I’m just telling them my opinion.
I’m a salesperson. I have a vested interest in them buying.
But if I turn the conversation around and ask them:
What do you want this service to provide for you?
What are your goals?
What are you trying to achieve?
Now they start thinking about how the service fits into their objectives.
That’s the real conversation.
[24:35] Rod Kuchta:
Sales is actually a world full of misunderstandings.
Many salespeople think they have to sell something.
They don’t.
They need to listen.
They need to ask questions.
Sales is not about talking constantly.
The worst thing someone can have in sales is what people call the “gift of the gab”.
Sales is a process. That’s all it is.
And the key skill is learning how to guide that process.
[25:48] Rod Kuchta:
Today we live in a very informed world.
Upwards of 80% of the decision-making process has already been completed before a client even speaks to a sales representative.
They already know the product.
They understand the problem.
They’ve researched the company.
That final 20% of the process is where salespeople need to get it right.
But many of them get it wrong because they just keep talking.
[26:27] Darren Jamieson:
Yes. And I’ve had this conversation several times recently.
I always refer back to something the marketing manager at Game told me when I worked there 25 years ago.
We were competing against Tesco and Sainsbury’s on video game release prices.
They would advertise that they were the cheapest. We would reduce our price and advertise that we were cheaper than them.
The buying team were worried about putting prices in advertising.
But the marketing manager said something that stuck with me.
If you win a customer on price, you’ll lose a customer on price.
You need to win them on service, quality and trust.
That’s what keeps customers.
[27:23] Rod Kuchta:
Exactly.
And in highly commoditised markets, particularly in parts of the technology sector, price can become the main focus.
I worked with a company recently in a very commoditised tech market.
Their sales process was simple:
They would meet a client, present their offer, send the quote, and then the client would stop responding.
Many people call that ghosting.
My advice is always the same.
Stay front of mind.
[28:11] Rod Kuchta:
From the moment the meeting is confirmed, and even before that, you should be delivering value to the client through regular communication.
Not selling.
Sharing value.
That could be written emails, videos, useful information about the industry, technology insights, client success stories.
You’re staying present in their mind.
So when they go looking for cheaper quotes, they remember why they came to you in the first place.
[29:14] Rod Kuchta:
What you’re aiming for is the moment where the client realises:
“I don’t care if someone else is £100 cheaper. I want the company that will deliver the best service.”
People buy from people.
They buy from companies they trust.
[30:01] Rod Kuchta:
If you send a quote and then chase them aggressively with phone calls and emails, you create frustration.
Then when they finally respond and say they’ve chosen someone cheaper, it’s often because you didn’t demonstrate enough value.
This approach isn’t a guarantee you’ll win every sale.
But it dramatically increases your chances and positions your business as something other than price driven.
[30:41] Darren Jamieson:
You mentioned value proposition earlier.
A lot of people don’t actually know what that means.
How should a business go about creating one?
[31:00] Rod Kuchta:
Start with the questions your potential customers are asking.
Don’t start with:
“This is who we are.”
“This is how great we are.”
That’s the wrong starting point.
Your potential customer is asking:
What will this do for me?
Why should I trust it?
What should I be looking for?
If your value proposition answers those questions consistently, you start building credibility, trust and authority.
[32:04] Rod Kuchta:
You can find these questions easily.
Use tools like AnswerThePublic or AI platforms.
Perplexity is very good for factual answers.
ChatGPT is also useful for generating insights and ideas.
Use them to identify what your customers want to know.
[33:27] Darren Jamieson:
ChatGPT might occasionally make things up though. It’s like your mate from Stoke. Sometimes it sounds convincing but might not be right.
[33:41] Rod Kuchta:
That’s true.
Although recently ChatGPT reviewed the first draft of one of my novels and gave me very positive feedback.
My editor also gave me positive feedback.
And editors are not usually positive unless they genuinely like what they’ve read.
So in that case ChatGPT did not lie.
[34:00] Rod Kuchta:
Once you know the questions customers are asking, you need to distribute those answers.
Share them through email.
Publish them on your website.
Create a knowledge base.
This helps build authority and keeps you visible.
[35:02] Darren Jamieson:
Yes. In the past you could answer a question and appear in a featured snippet on Google.
Some of our clients had thousands of those.
Now with AI overviews and zero-click searches, traffic has disappeared for some websites.
The challenge now is getting AI systems like ChatGPT or Gemini to see you as an authority.
And that’s done by providing valuable content that answers real questions.
[36:04] Darren Jamieson:
When we first started Engage Web, we made the classic mistake.
Our proposals began with several pages about us, our history and our company.
It wasn’t until we went through serious sales training that we realised that approach was completely wrong.
The conversation should always be about the client.
[37:03] Darren Jamieson:
And yet people still start presentations talking about themselves.
This is who I am.
This is my background.
These are my qualifications.
Why are people still doing that?
[37:14] Rod Kuchta:
Partly because it’s easier.
And partly because companies fall into habits.
Businesses develop cultural patterns.
“We’ve always done it this way.”
But that doesn’t mean it’s working.
Sometimes people are simply afraid to try something new.
[38:23] Rod Kuchta:
I recently worked with a client whose newsletter required too much effort from the reader.
Every section asked the reader to click another link.
So we’re redesigning it to be short, punchy and valuable.
A four-minute read.
Clear paragraphs.
Fast to consume.
Now the reader gets the value immediately.
[39:25] Rod Kuchta:
If you join a company and want to introduce new ideas, the best time to find out whether that will be possible is during the interview.
Ask questions.
Are they open to new approaches?
Are they willing to change?
If they aren’t, they may not be the right company for you.
[40:12] Darren Jamieson:
We’ve seen businesses with terrible websites that are actually doing major contracts with organisations like the MOD or the Air Force.
None of that credibility is shown on the website.
Anyone looking at it would think it’s a hobby business.
And they don’t seem to want to change it.
[41:06] Rod Kuchta:
Sometimes people simply think having a website is enough.
A friend of mine started a business recently and asked me to review his website.
It was awful.
The worst part was that the “About Me” section was basically just the terms and conditions.
There was nothing about the problems customers face or how the service helps them.
[42:34] Darren Jamieson:
Here’s a question.
What do you say to businesses who say they can’t invest in marketing or coaching until sales increase?
We hear that all the time.
[42:59] Rod Kuchta:
That’s the classic chicken-and-egg problem.
What’s magically going to make sales increase if you don’t change anything?
So the conversation becomes:
What are you doing now to increase sales?
How well is that working?
How long have you been doing it?
Usually the answer is that nothing is working.
[43:48] Rod Kuchta:
Then the conversation shifts.
If money wasn’t the issue, what would you want your website to deliver?
Who are you trying to reach?
Often the answer is “anyone”.
Which really means nobody.
[45:02] Rod Kuchta:
Instead, you need to identify the customers you actually enjoy working with.
The ones who pay well, cause fewer problems and trust your advice.
Once you identify those patterns, you can build an ideal customer profile.
Then your messaging can focus directly on them.
[46:10] Rod Kuchta:
By the end of that conversation, the client’s thinking changes.
Instead of saying they can’t afford the service, they’re asking themselves how they can afford it.
Because they now understand its value.
[47:08] Darren Jamieson:
If the need is strong enough, people will always find the money.
[47:22] Rod Kuchta:
Exactly.
Money is rarely the real problem.
The real issue is that the value hasn’t been clearly demonstrated.
[48:10] Darren Jamieson:
Speaking of time, we’re almost out of it.
If someone listening wants to reach out and work with you, what’s the best way to contact you?
[48:24] Rod Kuchta:
They can find me on LinkedIn. Just search for Rod Kuchta.
They can also visit my website and contact me there.
[49:00] Darren Jamieson:
Fantastic. I’ll include links in the podcast description and show notes so people can connect with you directly.
Rod, thank you very much for joining me on The Engaging Marketeer.
[49:27] Rod Kuchta:
It’s been my absolute pleasure. Thank you very much for having me.
