Darren Jamieson: On today’s episode of The Engaging Marketeer, I’m speaking with Bron Watson, who is The Social Coach, based in Australia. For me right now, it’s very early in the morning, and for Bron, it’s very late in the evening, because that’s the way time works.
I’m going to be talking to Bron about how she found me through LinkedIn and through BNI, and how she helps people with their social media. Not just getting a name out there and posting on social media, but actually getting raving fans and followers through social media, because that’s what it’s all about.
But we’re also going to be talking quite at length about Bron’s cancer diagnosis, with two types of cancer. So, warning, this might be quite triggering, but it is definitely an interview that you want to be listening to.
So, let’s find out more about Bron Watson, The Social Coach.
Hello.
Bron Watson: Hello. How are you?
Darren Jamieson: Good evening, Bron. How are you?
Bron Watson: Good morning. This is weird.
Darren Jamieson: This is weird.
Bron Watson: We can do this. I know we can. What’s in your coffee cup?
Darren Jamieson: Oh, it’s just black coffee.
Bron Watson: Black coffee. Well, I’m actually going decaf. There’s no wine. See, I have proof. There’s no wine.
Darren Jamieson: Oh, it’s off.
Bron Watson: Look, I wish. All right. But it doesn’t go well with anti-cancer drugs, so you know.
Darren Jamieson: Funny story. In the UK we’re always told you’re not allowed to have alcohol with antibiotics and stuff like that. But do you know that a lot of the time it’s actually not true? You can drink alcohol with various different drugs.
Do you know the reason they used to tell you not to do that? So you wouldn’t get drunk.
Bron Watson: Well, partly.
Darren Jamieson: Partly that was the build-up to it. It’s because most people in the UK in the 19th century, in the 1800s, that were on those kind of drugs were on it for sexually transmitted diseases.
Bron Watson: Oh, great.
Darren Jamieson: They told them not to drink with the drugs because they would drink, get drunk, go out and sleep with other people and pass on the sexually transmitted diseases.
Bron Watson: They’re nasties. They keep the little creepy crawlies to themselves.
Darren Jamieson: Exactly. So they tell you don’t drink with the drugs because it’s just a traditional thing they’ve always said. They don’t want you going out and passing illness to other people.
Bron Watson: They don’t want you to pass on to other people.
Darren Jamieson: The vast majority of drugs, it is actually okay to drink alcohol with. They just tell you not to because that’s what they do. Don’t take my word for it, take advice from a doctor.
Bron Watson: Well, there you go. Well, no one can catch what I’ve got. First things first.
Darren Jamieson: Exactly.
Bron Watson: Look, I don’t mind the old French martini. So, if I’m going to have a drink, I’ll have a French martini.
Darren Jamieson: What’s a French martini as opposed to a normal martini?
Bron Watson: Well, it’s got Chambord, vodka, pineapple juice, and I think maybe soda water. Give it a little shake. In she goes. Bit of fairy floss, or a bit of dried orange, whatever tickles your fancy. It’s really yummy. It’s a really nice drink. So, away we go.
Darren Jamieson: There you go. Cheers to you. Cheers to me. But you’re not drinking one now, of course.
Bron Watson: No, I’m going the goddamn decaf. How boring is that?
Darren Jamieson: So boring. Anybody threatens me with decaf, I push them out the window.
Bron Watson: I know. A swear word in this office. Decaf.
Darren Jamieson: Lucky I’m not there then. You couldn’t be further away, could you?
Bron Watson: Not if I tried.
Darren Jamieson: I’m just closing off a few things. There we go.
Bron Watson: Oh, are you all right?
Darren Jamieson: Yeah, I’m all good. I’m done now. I’m sorry.
Bron Watson: Are you done? That was fast.
Darren Jamieson: Yeah. That’s all right. We better crack on then.
Bron Watson: Really? Haven’t we?
Darren Jamieson: That’s it. I don’t even know what we’re talking about, but I’m sure it’ll just happen.
Bron Watson: I’m sure you’ve got a plan of some description.
Darren Jamieson: I have no plan. The guys will probably leave that bit in at the beginning because, why not, it was funny.
So, let’s motor on with it. You started by mentioning you’re not drinking wine because it doesn’t go with the drug. Do you want to elaborate on what that is?
Bron Watson: Well, there’s one way to bring the mood down in a 30-second spiel. All right. So, roller coaster, we’ll go up and down.
Look, I’m a nurse educator in my previous life, like way back in the day. Had a dual career in marketing, would you believe? And started my own business in 2012. Grew this ridiculous business, which was great. I did exactly what all the mentors and everyone tells you to do.
Then in 2017, I was diagnosed with breast cancer.
At 48, along comes this breast cancer diagnosis
And when you’re running your own business, you don’t exactly plan for things like that, and treatment. So that was the biggest epiphany, which was, okay, how did we get here, but what’s next?
Fast forward a few more years and in 2023 I was then diagnosed with multiple myeloma, which is an incurable blood cancer, basically. So I’ve had a curable cancer and now I’ve had an incurable cancer. And it’s been one hell of a ride. And all the way through there, of course, I’ve been running my own business in marketing. So, it’s just been this pretty darn crazy ride.
But it’s taught me so much about business, about myself, about life, and being able to build a space, what I now call The Serenity Project. This is where I’m beta testing myself and basically finding a space. I call it the third space, which is between science and soul, evidence and perspective.
So it’s a space where, no matter what in your life is going on, no matter what adversity, or in my case cancer, and no matter what prognosis they try to throw at you, every single one of us can go on a path of what I call healing.
What that means for someone who doesn’t have an illness that is potentially going to shorten their life, adversity comes. Darren, no doubt you’ve had adversity over the years, right? And it’s just a way of living out the best you can be. And in my case, not having wine.
Darren Jamieson: Some prices are too much to pay.
Bron Watson: Look, I could have done with something a little less dramatic, let’s be honest. But I’m so grateful. I call it that gratitude and grief can absolutely live in the same lane, believe it or not. You can learn it. It doesn’t come naturally.
It’s not an either or. It’s an and. It’s Western medicine and alternative medicine. It’s grief and gratitude. It’s fear and flexibility. It’s learned. You can learn and laugh and enjoy life to the full.
I’m in remission. I am fantastic, and I’m as good as my last blood results, which come out on Wednesday. So, doing great.
Darren Jamieson: That is good.
Do you know, you’re the third person I’ve had on this podcast that has talked about “and” as opposed to “or”, because the first two were both improv performers.
Bron Watson: Oh really?
Darren Jamieson: I don’t know if you’ve done improv, or if there’s just a complete coincidence there. But with improvisation, you get up on stage and somebody gives you a scenario, and you’re taught to do “this and this” instead of “or”. It works in sales as well. “Or” is a blocking word. “And” is accepting your reality and this additional reality.
Bron Watson: Third time, it’s more than just a coincidence, isn’t it? It’s starting to stick. I’m going to block “or” from my vocabulary.
You don’t know how strong you are until you have no choice
Everyone goes, “Oh my gosh, Bron, you’re so strong.” It’s like, you have no idea how not strong I am. I’m just not quitting. I’m finding a path no matter what. No matter what happens, I will still find a path.
Not everyone can do that, but that’s called resilience. And you can absolutely learn it. It doesn’t come naturally.
It’s that split-second in the road when it happens, and then you run with it, and you don’t know what the outcome is. I don’t know what tomorrow is. I don’t know the next day. My week could completely change by the end of the week. It’s a strange thing.
Darren Jamieson: How did it feel when you got that second diagnosis?
Bron Watson: Putting that into words. I’d only got sent to the haematologist because I’d had this. One of the things that fights infection is neutrophils, part of your white cells, and they had been low for five years since chemotherapy for the breast cancer. So no one ever thought a thing of it.
My doctor said, “Look, I think you should go and see someone just to double check.” Get the bloods done, go to see them to get the results. “Bron, everything is fantastic. Never have to see me again.”
Four days later, I get a phone call: “Bron, there’s two markers, two cancer markers, that are really off. We’re going to need to do a bone marrow biopsy.”
And I’m going, “Sorry, you’ve just told me I was okay four days ago.”
So you’re in a spin. And then what do you do? You go to Dr Google. Because I didn’t know what I was looking at yet.
Here I am, nurse educator, looking up things, not a haematologist. I’m reading all this horror.
I live in a country town, four hours north of Sydney. So things don’t move fast. You’ve got to wait to get back into the specialist. Then you’ve got to wait to get into the bone marrow, get your biopsy done. Then you’ve got to wait for results.
From that time, which I think was the 14th of January, I didn’t get a formal diagnosis until the 23rd of February. So I literally cried for six weeks and I was looking at the trees going, “Please, God.” Whoever you want to believe in, God, universe, whatever you want to call it. Dennis. Whoever you want to believe in, Darren. Whoever.
Darren Jamieson: Dennis, the dentist.
Bron Watson: I want time. I want to have time to process because I didn’t get given time with the breast cancer. Didn’t get time again.
By this stage, the specialist already knew. He was just formalising it with this bone marrow biopsy. But I wasn’t able to twig.
So when I’m sitting there on the 23rd of February, I had to say to him, “Do I have cancer?” “Oh yes, Bron, you do. And you’re starting chemotherapy next week.”
I cannot put into words what it’s like to walk out of a cancer institute. You’re walking out the doors and you know everyone around you is doing varying things, and life is just going on, and now you’re not once, but you’re twice in this lane. And going, wow, now what?
And not knowing what it all meant, because you don’t get all the answers at once, and neither should you. For those listening, please don’t get all the answers at once, because you cannot process it.
What I didn’t know then, what I know now, is I now go, right, feel the feels. You’re overwhelmed, you want to cry, you cry.
Back then, I was walking out of the cancer institute dry-eyed. My husband Paul with me. We were both in shock. We’d get to the car and then cry.
Now, I cry wherever I want. I don’t care what anyone thinks.
So you feel the feels. And then you look at what you can control.
Control the controllables
What is in my life that I can control, and what can I not control? Which is where the serenity prayer comes from.
I don’t know if you know the serenity prayer. People know it from addiction treatment, but it is the best thing ever because it is so practical.
God grant me serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.
So what’s out of my control? What’s out of my control is what’s growing in my bone marrow right this very moment.
So we control the controllables, which is not projecting my thoughts and fears into the future because it hasn’t happened yet, or looking back going, what the hell happened, why me, victim. It doesn’t mean you don’t do it. You can be the victim, but don’t stay there.
So, feel the feels, control the controllables, then pause. You literally pause and go, okay. It’s absolute shock, fear, whatever you’re feeling. You pause, you reflect, and then you respond.
So I can now walk into that cancer institute knowing 100 percent that no matter what happens in that room, I’m going to be okay. It’s going to suck, believe you me, but I’m never going to be in that absolute horror of that vortex of fear again.
That vortex of fear is so real, and it is so normal to be in. But where I am right now is I get sucked in, but I get out quicker than I did back then.
Because when you’re given a number, when they give you a prognosis, for me, I was not asked whether I wanted it. I just got given it. It’s like, “Would you like a cup of tea?” That’s how they speak to you. And here’s your number.
I’m like, hang on a minute. Back it up. Where did you get that information from?
“Well, Bron, the average age of a person is this. And they normally do three rounds of treatment and then they give up and then they die.”
And I went, I’m not 70. Or maybe I look 70, but I’m not. Don’t put that onto me because you don’t know the answer.
I’m not here to say don’t listen to your doctor. I’m saying process it your way.
I’m not looking for a cure. I’m looking for a path of healing, because I can absolutely go on a path of healing no matter how long I live for.
And I thank the squirrels. That’s what I call them, these beautiful, amazing researchers who are doing the most incredible things for people like me to keep us alive for as long as possible.
Darren Jamieson: I have to ask, what was the prognosis?
Bron Watson: I don’t want to say in case my children hear this.
Darren Jamieson: That’s fair.
Bron Watson: A single digit.
Darren Jamieson: Wow.
Bron Watson: I’m 56 now. I was diagnosed at 54. So yes, I’m well into my single digit.
Darren Jamieson: Wow. Okay.
Bron Watson: Do I believe it? I do not believe it. I’m not being ignorant. What I believe in is science and I believe in soul. I believe in what they do, those amazing researchers. What they have done in science is incredible.
People knock chemo. “Oh, you’re using that treatment.” Hang on a minute. It’s my decision, versus the alternative. It’s all treatment. Can we just call it treatment, because that’s what it is.
And I thank them for it.
In business, we are all taught about mindset and the language we use to describe things. If we see something that is toxic, which it is, in the breast cancer I used to say, “Oh God, I’m getting more rat poison.” But now I go in with a completely different mindset, which is: I thank you, scientists. I thank you for the work you have done and that you continue to do.
And Bron, I thank you for being this absolute never-quitting chick who’s giving it a red-hot crack no matter what. Because your brain doesn’t know the difference of what you’re telling it. So why would I bring in negative rubbish, versus feel the feels, control the controllables, give it a name that is right for me.
Remember, it’s right for me. You need to find your serenity. You need to find your way of going through it.
But it’s powerful. And that’s why I’m here. That’s why I’m still in remission. I really truly believe that.
Darren Jamieson: Tell me about The Serenity Project. What inspired you to want to help other people with that as well?
Bron Watson: That’s a good question, because I do ask myself sometimes on the bad days, like, Bron, why are you doing this? Because it’s bigger than me.
Because of my background. I have been a nurse educator. I’ve been in this field for decades. I’ve been down a curative path. I’m still on a curative path. I’m in my eighth year post breast cancer. And I’m still on an incurable path over here.
When you’re in that space, and you’re the patient in the bed, I look back and go, oh my gosh, we didn’t even think about it.
I would love to increase the health profession around trauma, to become trauma-informed, to encourage healing versus solo effective treatment. Haematologists only look at blood. Cardiologists only look at the heart.
I’d love it to be for everyone, that we are all given the option to heal.
Imagine going into your cancer institute and you’re handed your book for treatment. “Bron, here’s your red book”, full of all the things you’re going to sign for and have done to your body.
But “Bron, here’s your pink book”, it’s my favourite colour. Insert whatever book. But insert a book or a treatment plan that is everything else.
Here are some things you can’t control, but look at all this cool stuff over here. And change the way we treat our patients so everybody has that information.
I’m talking big picture now. I don’t always share this part with everyone, but The Serenity Project was born. I am the beta test.
I’ve been writing this book for years called The Serenity Project, before this second cancer diagnosis. Even before the first, would you believe? I wrote the first chapter in 2016. I didn’t even know why I was writing it. Strange, but I did.
And it is 100 percent relevant to where my life is now. It’s so crazy. I only pulled it out a couple of years ago and went, what the heck? Where did that come from?
So I feel I have been given this opportunity to speak and to share while I can, because it’ll be bigger than me. And when I can’t speak, or I’m not well, there will be people who can carry this mission of being able to support people, whether that be cancer or adversity or burnout.
We can still help our people around us by following a really simple method.
And that’s where it came from, and it’s just growing. I didn’t even know this was coming.
But coming from running a business, you can pull this stuff off because you’ve done it before. And coming from marketing, you know how to share the story.
In my down days, Darren, I go, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? Because I’m not doing it for everyone else. I’m doing it to share thoughts and create awareness, for people to be aware that they too can go and find their serenity.
I’m not here to tell them what to do. I’m not giving them a list of things to do. That’s not how it works. Because that’s what everyone else does.
There’s no to-do lists. It’s just a thought. Have a think about it. If it resonates, great. If it doesn’t, ignore it.
Darren Jamieson: You mentioned coming from the background of running a business. One of the podcasts I recorded a couple of years ago was with a guy called Dave Sanderson, and he was one of the passengers on the flight that crashed into the Hudson in New York. He was the last passenger off the plane.
He mentioned how, because that flight, they were all business people. There were no tourists. There were no kids. They were all business people. They were all leaders. Nobody died. Everybody organised, got off the plane, people took charge. And he thinks because they were business people, they survived that without any fatalities.
Do you think that people in your position, who are business people, who are business leaders, have an almost obligation to help others to do what you’re doing, because you’re able to see things in a different way?
Bron Watson: That’s a bloody good question. Yes.
When you start a business, entrepreneurship, whatever you want to call it, you’ve had an idea and you’re literally creating something from nothing. Whether there’s 20 florists in your area and you’re starting your own florist, you are starting something from nothing. Then you grow it, you make mistakes, you grow it, you twist, you turn, you pivot, you do all of the things, because that’s what happens.
You’re financially as good as your last invoice. That’s one thing employees don’t understand, the responsibilities and the many hats that happen within a business.
I think you get an innate ability to make a decision. You have to make a decision. For me, I’ve got a team of four. I’ve got to make decisions. The buck stops with you.
And I’m not doing this for business. This is not a money-making adventure. Yes, there are financial parts within that, because it’s got to fund itself.
But it’s around what you do next, where we take that. If we want to change the way we treat and care for cancer patients, or anyone with adversity, someone’s got to fund that eventually. So we’ve got to have a machine that demonstrates exactly who we are and what we do.
Being in business helps because I can speak. I am an educator. And you can make a decision. Whether it’s right or not is irrelevant because we’ll make it right.
If we’re making a mistake today and people are listening and go, “Bron, you were so full of it”, great. I’m happy you think that. You’re not my people.
So yes, I would agree with that.
Darren Jamieson: As you mentioned, you are an educator because you’ve worked with nurses, haven’t you, to help them. So you’ve seen both sides of the healthcare system in Australia.
In the UK, it’s fairly well regarded that our healthcare system is on its arse, massively underfunded. I experienced that myself recently when I had to go to A&E with somebody. She was there from 11 in the morning. She didn’t get home till just before midnight. They gave an estimate of six hours to see her, and it was about eight or nine hours before she got seen.
She wasn’t from the UK. She was from another country, and said in that country it’s about half an hour to see somebody.
In Australia it can be that long, can it?
Bron Watson: Oh, absolutely. I have a friend whose mother waited 11 hours the other day. She was triaged, then put into a category, and depending on your category is depending on where you are in the line.
This woman had a drip put in, because she wasn’t eating, and she wasn’t allowed to eat. And 11 hours she was in a chair in the waiting room.
It’s no one’s fault. It’s the system. Everyone is doing the best they can with what they have.
So yes, the NHS isn’t awesome, but in Australia, it can be the same.
Darren Jamieson: I’ve been into A&E in Las Vegas. Now, that was an interesting one.
What was that like? I’ve never been to a hospital in America. I’ve heard horror.
Bron Watson: I’ve been to two.
The first one was in Wisconsin. I’d broken my elbow. I was speaking at a conference and all I wanted to do was see snow. I come from the mid north coast of New South Wales, Australia, and we have no snow.
It started snowing and I was so excited. I put on my big fluffy hooded jacket, bought especially for the trip. I jumped off a retaining wall that was maybe half a metre high. I fell flat on my face and broke my elbow.
So I went into a hospital in Wisconsin and that was pretty smooth.
But then I needed to be checked by an orthopaedic surgeon in Las Vegas. The insurance company said you’ve got to go to this particular hospital, which was smack in the middle of Las Vegas.
You’ve got the security guard there and you’re going through security. You’re going through what you go through in an airport, before you actually get into emergency.
And there were really sick people in that emergency. Remembering with my background, I’m looking around going, oh my gosh, you are so sick.
This was in 2022. Post Covid, but still not out of the woods.
So I’m very grateful for the systems we have, but they are doing the best they can with the funding they get, and it’s not good enough. That’s my personal opinion.
Darren Jamieson: Do you think the funding is being used wisely?
Bron Watson: Another good question.
It goes to a lot of people in this country in healthcare, and they all say the same thing, that the funding isn’t getting to where it needs to get. It’s always being used for administrators at the top, and it’s not putting people on the front line.
Do I think the money goes where we need it? It is not equitable, is what it feels like to me.
I know that within cancer, there are more popular cancers than others. I have multiple myeloma, and it’s like the poor cousin of some of the other blood cancers, in my opinion.
But pharmaceuticals have a lot to play in that space as well, which is where the research dollars come from.
From my perspective, if there is someone who’s not getting what they need, you just keep going until you find it. You keep asking questions. You find people who know people who know people.
I’ve met this most incredible doctor from Brazil because I met this guy on an online summit where I was presenting, and now I’ve been connected with the most incredible doctor doing the most incredible work in Brazil.
So, if you feel no matter where you are and you’re needing more, you just go and find it. You’ve got to keep looking.
I’m not saying patients need to become scientists. I’m never going to be a scientist. I’m never going to understand the research they do. I’m not a doctor. I don’t want to be a doctor. I’m so grateful for the doctors.
So I am the patient. Stay in your patient lane. Whatever your lane is.
And when it comes to knowledge, find people who know the things. And if the people don’t know them, go to someone who does. Rather than try to become the scientist and read the peer-reviewed articles yourself.
Or read the intro and the summary at the end and leave the rest in the middle.
Darren Jamieson: There’s a question I’ve been not sure whether I want to ask.
There are conspiracy theorists who say things like, we don’t need oil anymore because electric cars have been built to a level where you won’t need oil, but it’s been suppressed because it would kill the oil industry.
And there’s another one. There’s no money in curing cancer. The money is in treating cancer. There is a thought among some people that a cure has already been discovered. It’s been buried because it’s not really going to make any money, and pharmaceutical companies would never allow it to happen.
Have you heard that?
Bron Watson: I have.
I won’t answer my opinion other than: if you are having those thoughts, you’re not alone, and you keep going till you find someone who can answer the question for you.
In terms of treatment of cancer in a traditional method, chemo, immunotherapy, whatever, you’re getting treated with a pharmaceutical product. But then you’re going to need drugs for the side effects of that treatment.
And then for me, I ended up on medication for the side effects of the medication for the cancer. Where I never took a tablet in my life.
I’ll give you an example. Post breast cancer, I take a drug. I’m in postmenopausal now, thank you chemotherapy.
I take an anti-cancer drug. You can choose up to 10 years.
A side effect is increased cholesterol. I didn’t have cholesterol before. I now have cholesterol. I now have a cardiologist because it’s got to manage all the cardiac stuff related to the cholesterol.
Then you’ve got to have the CT with a calcium score to find out your risk of dying of a heart attack at my age.
It just goes on and on.
You can say no, I do not want any of the treatment, and I respect anybody who chooses that. Whatever your choice of treatment and healing is, is yours.
If you go down the track of all natural, great. That’s exactly what you’re meant to take.
People like me want all the things because I want to live till I’m an old lady. So then we have to deal with what comes next, which is side effects.
Pharmaceutical companies own the drugs for the side effects.
But you can find alternative treatments to deal with those things, such as reflux. There’s so much you can take, but you might need a functional specialist, a functional GP, or a naturopath who can help you.
That’s why I say take all the things if that’s what’s right for you. It’s not an either or. It’s an and.
That’s my personal opinion.
Darren Jamieson: It’s very sad because we’ll never know.
It’s a whole ivermectin story. If you go and have a look at ivermectin and all the stories with it.
Bron Watson: Do you remember when there was a big interview done about ivermectin, and what it does for treatment of cancer?
Ivermectin on its own is used on animals as a drench for worming.
But this is what happens when you start looking into medications that have been created, and have had these unexpected ways they can be used, or combinations of medications.
But if I go to my haematologist, he’s probably going to say, “Well, Bron, that’s up to you how you want to do that, but we don’t believe that within our silo of treatment.”
Back in the beginning when I talked about silos, it’s the silos.
You want to take away the walls between the silos, because then you, the patient, the community, can make a decision. Because at the moment, if you don’t know where to go, you won’t get the answers.
That’s my personal opinion.
Darren Jamieson: Should we bring it to something a bit more exciting? Let’s talk about marketing.
Bron Watson: Oh my God. Now I need to go to sleep. But yeah, go on.
Darren Jamieson: You’ve been in marketing a long time. What kind of businesses have you worked with?
Bron Watson: Different.
My very first marketing job was with Ticketek, one of the major ticketing companies in Australia, like Ticketmaster.
Darren Jamieson: And I hate them because of the markup they make on tickets.
Bron Watson: Correct. Anyway, that was a great getting the ground running experience, in the entertainment industry. I got to go to every musical, and I really enjoyed my time there.
Then I worked in a hospital, a very large hospital, one of the biggest hospitals in Australia and in the southern hemisphere. I loved my time there because I could combine my understanding of health and marketing.
I’ve worked for an energy retailer, an energy network provider. I’ve had some big gigs.
And then I started my own business.
Darren Jamieson: Do hospitals need marketing?
Bron Watson: Oh yes. In Australia, health has marketing teams. They spend a fortune on it. You mix it in marketing communications.
There’s patient booklets, patient information, external and internal. It was all different kinds in that space.
I had the most amazing boss. Her name was Julie. To this day she was one of the best leaders I’ve ever seen walking and talking her values and leadership skill.
Darren Jamieson: Your own business. What kind of people do you work with?
Bron Watson: I love working with small business owners. People who have probably sub five to 10 employees, where they understand the value of where marketing sits.
I’m not sure who you work with, but you know, you’re part of BNI and I’m part of BNI, and those rooms are full of people who know they need marketing, but they think they can do it themselves, or they don’t understand the strategy behind what you’re trying to achieve.
I also love working with people in regional areas. I’ll help whoever needs help if it’s a fit. I’m at the stage in life where if it’s a fit, that’s great.
It’s called The Social Coach, and I have a unique method. I call it the Bronco Method.
I’m blessed in some ways now because of what I’ve been through, to bring decades of experience plus understanding people.
Understanding people is the key.
I appreciate people who understand they need marketing, and they understand what it’s meant to achieve.
If you think you’re going to double your money in 30 days using social media organically, great. Tell me the secret.
But that’s what people’s expectations are.
Darren Jamieson: How often do they say, “Bron, I want to go viral. How do I do that?”
Bron Watson: All the time.
My answer today is, congratulations, that’s a great goal. I may not be able to help you with that, but what I can help you with is getting you raving fans.
Whether you want 200 raving fans who share and love and work with you and love what you do, versus 20,000 people who do nothing, up to you.
You want the cash register to ring. That’s what we’re in business for. So where are the multifacets?
Marketing is about creating curiosity. We want to hit that curiosity button, connect, like, comment, share, whatever it is.
Then we hand it over to sales conversion. We might have advertising in there. It all has a different job to play, and it comes together.
People misunderstand what marketing does. It’s one part of the whole flow.
That’s my take on it. What about you?
Darren Jamieson: That’s a really good point.
A lot of people come to us and say, “I want to go viral”, or “I want 2,000 followers on LinkedIn”, or “I want to rank above my competitor in Google for this keyphrase.”
And it’s like, why do you want that?
“Because they are there and I want to be there.”
Why?
“Because I think it’s going to get me more business.”
It probably isn’t.
Then there’s people that go around country clubs and say things like, “I rank on the first page of Google for a search on mobile phones.” How many people are buying by searching for “mobile phones”? None of them. They work out what model they want, what variation and colour, and it’s at that point they make a sale. You rank for that? No.
You spent millions to rank for “mobile phones” and you’re getting sod for it.
People don’t understand what it is they actually want. They just think they want it.
And there are agencies out there, you go to them and say, “Spend £2,000 a month on my Google Ads and get me traffic.” “Yes, I’ll do that straight away.” And it might not be the right thing for them. It might not get them business, but they’ll take the money and do it anyway because it’s what they asked.
That frustrates the hell out of me.
Bron Watson: Me too. It’s marketing without strategy. Marketing without the long game, the short game, the medium game.
It could be raising awareness. It could be connections. But what’s that going to give you exactly?
What’s a like going to give you? What’s viral going to do in the cash register? That’s what I’m interested in. It’s what you do next.
I use five pillars: lead generation, lead nurture, sales conversion, delivery, and then referrals and upsell.
Everyone’s really good at delivery. But you might be awesome at delivery and you really suck at nurture. Which means you spend all that money bringing people to your website and you do nothing with it.
Or you’re putting all this time into growing followers on Instagram, for what purpose?
Marketing has a different job to play.
In my world, all roads lead to Rome. We build the foundation, then we layer on all the things like what you do, and other agencies do. But if your foundation isn’t clear, or it’s messy, or it’s inconsistent, you’re stuffed.
Darren Jamieson: I like that technical term.
Bron Watson: You’re wasting your time, and time is money.
Darren Jamieson: I agree. A lot of people waste their money because they concentrate on the things they think are important, like getting traffic to the website.
They think SEO is a magic bullet. Increase the traffic from 100 people a month to 1,000 people, and suddenly business is just going to happen.
It reminds me of a skit from South Park. Their plan to get rich was:
Step one, steal all the pants. Step two, we’re not sure what step two is. Step three, become rich.
That is marketing.
Step one, get loads of traffic. Step two, we’re not sure. Step three, 300 grand additional revenue. How’s that going to work? Don’t know. Not sure on step two.
Bron Watson: Exactly. “You sort it out.”
It doesn’t have to be complicated once you know exactly what you need. That does take having conversations with people who know what they’re doing.
I’ve had people say to me, “Bron, you’re going to be out of a job soon with AI.”
It’s called context, and it’s called humans.
Humans need to run it. AI can give you 81 percent accuracy, which tells me that’s 19 percent incorrect. Would you back a horse on that? No. You’ve got to go and check it.
So you need humans. Humans understand humans.
We feed the machines. We feed AI. We give it the things we want. I love AI. It’s a fantastic tool to speed up. You can strategise with it. You can say, “Have I missed anything?” You can use it to bounce ideas and summarise.
But if all you’re using it for is content creation, you’re missing the point. It’s way more than that.
I’m not worried about being out of a job. We just need to evolve with it.
Darren Jamieson: I use it for things like this podcast. We’ll get a summary from AI of what we talked about, but it’s stuff we’ve already talked about.
What AI cannot do, what it can never do, is create something original from scratch. It can only rework and return what has gone before. And if it hasn’t gone before, it can’t do it.
It’s only as good as what you give it. You give it rubbish, you get rubbish. And you won’t know you’ve got rubbish.
Bron Watson: Exactly. Data in, data out.
Write 10 blogs on my dental practice. Better be quality.
Darren Jamieson: Do you know we’re almost out of time?
Bron Watson: Well done us. I hope that was useful.
Darren Jamieson: I think so. We didn’t even talk about spiders and snakes once.
Bron Watson: We did not.
Darren Jamieson: One thing I did want to mention is the power of BNI.
Bron Watson: Oh yes. Go on then.
Darren Jamieson: Go for it.
Bron Watson: The reason why, and it’s not just BNI, it’s networking, it’s reaching out.
For context for your listeners, I was searching for training for BNI. I’m the Go for Green Coordinator, which means I’m helping members get the most out of their membership. I came across training you’d put out. So I got your free thing, got you in the funnel, and then I purchased because I wanted the trainings. I didn’t want to reinvent the wheel.
Then on your first email, “Connect here on LinkedIn.” So I sent you a message. “Hi, I’d love to add you to my professional network.”
And then you responded with, “Hey, we’re both in BNI and I can see you’re in marketing. Do you want to catch up?” You cannot put money on that. You don’t know who knows who.
And this is where I feel when it comes to business, no matter where you’re working, what you’re doing, don’t forget to engage.
There are two sides to social media. We have content creation, publication, all the things. On the other side, we have engagement.
It’s about taking the time and effort to get to know someone. That is engagement.
Most people miss out on that because you don’t know where it’s going to go.
Darren Jamieson: You’re absolutely right. That thing you downloaded is a lead magnet. It’s a course.
Most people, when someone downloads their lead magnet, that’s it. They leave it there. They think they’ll magically come back and become a customer.
You need to follow up a lead magnet. Phone call, LinkedIn message, email, however you do it. If you just leave people to download it and think they’re going to come back, you’re leaving so much on the table.
People spend so much effort writing and developing lead magnets. Some people use AI for it. That’s okay. But you have to follow it up. Otherwise you’re wasting your time.
And you followed me up.
Bron Watson: I did. I sent you a message. That is exactly what your funnel was meant to do. That’s marketing 101, when done properly.
In all seriousness, I appreciate it, because the content you’re putting out was quality. It was answering and solving a problem. Isn’t that what marketing is all about? Solving problems.
Darren Jamieson: Exactly.
Bron Watson: And then we kept it going. I think that’s the key in business.
Don’t just make 2,000 connections and then sell your things. Don’t connect with me and go, “Hey, can I book 15 minutes so I can show you my super cool thing?” No.
Human connection.
Most people contact you on LinkedIn and say, “Let me send you a summary of what we can do for your website,” or “Let me tell you about all the leads I can get you.” It’s a pitch slap. I hate it. Everybody gets hit up all the time, yet people keep doing it. Stop it.
Statistically speaking, 3 percent of people are ready to buy now. I call it the 63.
Three people out of 100 are ready to buy now.
The next 30 are people going, “Thanks, I loved it, but I’m still looking around for the next six months.”
The next 30 might not come back to you for 12 or 18 months. If you don’t nurture them, you lose them.
The last 37 were never going to be your market.
So you want to talk to the people who are the 63. Stop trying to sell to me because I might be in the 60, not the three.
People keep trying to sell to the three and get shocked they don’t get a response, and they miss the 60 other people because they’re too busy trying to sell.
Then three months’ time I’ve got a different need, but because you didn’t nurture me, you missed the mark.
That’s marketing.
Darren Jamieson: Anyone listening to this thinking, “Wow, she’s brilliant, I want to speak to her”, or “She’s mad, I want to speak to her”, what’s the best way for someone to reach out to you?
Bron Watson: Find me on LinkedIn.
If it’s Serenity Project stuff and you know someone who’s having a hard time, serenityproject.com.au.
And marketing stuff, thesocialcoach.com.au.
But honestly, just send a message. More than happy to answer questions. I’m all for collaboration. I believe that’s how we grow together. Happy to help if anyone’s got a question.
Darren Jamieson: Fantastic. Bron, thank you very much.
I will let you go because it is late where you are now and it’s early where I am now, because this is the nature of the world we live in right now.
Bron Watson: It is the nature of the world. Thank you for having me and having a really fun conversation. Thank you.
Darren Jamieson: Thank you for being on The Engaging Marketeer.
More about Bron:
Bron Watson is an Australian marketing strategist, business owner, and founder of The Social Coach and The Serenity Project. With decades of experience across corporate marketing, healthcare, and education, Bron combines commercial insight with deep personal resilience.
After building a successful marketing business, Bron was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2017 and later with multiple myeloma in 2023. While continuing to run her business, she developed The Serenity Project, a framework that blends science, mindset, and practical resilience to help people navigate adversity.
Bron now works with small business owners to build raving fans through strategic marketing, while also advocating for a more human, trauma-aware approach to healing and healthcare.
You can connect with Bron here:
The Social Coach: https://thesocialcoach.com.au/
The Serenity Project: https://serenityproject.com.au/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bronwatson/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bronwatsonme/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bron_watson/
About your host:
Darren has worked within digital marketing since the last century, and was the first in-house web designer for video games retailer GAME in the UK, known as Electronics Boutique in the States. After co-founding his own agency, Engage Web, in 2009, Darren has worked with clients around the world, including Australia, Canada and the USA.
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/engaging-marketeer/id1612454837
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrenjamieson/
Engaging Marketeer: https://engagingmarketeer.com
Engage Web: https://www.engageweb.co.uk
