Darren Jamieson: So, on this week’s episode of The Engaging Marketeer, I’m speaking to David Angel — the Sales Angel. David helps people with their sales process, which is really great for us because people come to Engage Web wanting more business, but they don’t necessarily have the sales conversion skills to make that work. Somebody like David can improve their sales conversions, so they’re then in a position to get more leads and enquiries from us. Let’s speak to David about how he does that and find out just how passionate he is about sales.
David, you help people with their sales processes. What is the biggest mistake businesses tend to make when it comes to making a sale or attempting to make a sale?
David Angel: Thanks for having me on.
A lot of people forget that every time we open our mouths, it has an impact
It either increases or reduces resistance, increases or reduces flow. And a lot of people get so caught up in how much time they’ve spent building their business, how much blood, sweat, and tears they’ve put into it, that they don’t focus on the person at the other end — helping them fix or even identify what the actual problem, solution, need or want is.
For most people, they come across desperate without even realising. They push a product, push an idea, push a plan. “My idea is the best idea.” Instead of really taking the time to understand what someone wants or needs, they try to sell them straight away. I say to a lot of people: selling someone on the idea of making a change is the biggest first step — before you even try to sell them on you.
Most people say, “Work with me, I’m the best.” My big thing is: help them decide to change. Once they’ve made that decision, then it’s about who they choose to work with. But most people just say, “We’re the best, come with us.” Yet the fiftieth-best company never says they’re fiftieth-best, so nobody believes any of it.
The bigger hurdle is that people never take the time to understand how others want to buy. We know how we like to buy, but rarely stop to consider how others buy. We think we’ve made decisions ourselves, but really we’ve been sold on ideas, beliefs and perspectives we’ve taken on without realising. Marketing works that way. And in business, if you don’t recognise that, you get no results.
Darren: You mentioned desperation there. If someone comes across desperate to make a sale, they need that business, that’s going to be off-putting, isn’t it?
David: A hundred percent. It’s what I call “commission breath.” If someone can smell that desperation on the phone, they know you’re just focused on yourself. It’s like dating: if you’re needy, no one wants to date you. The less needy you are, the more attractive you become.
The focus should always be: how can I help this person move from where they are now to the next step? If you do that, you’ll attract more business. It’s not about saying “buy from me.” Nobody cares how much money or time you’ve spent on your business — they care whether you’ll deliver on your promise, at the right price, without making them look stupid for buying from you.
Darren: You mentioned dating, and that’s something I’ve noticed as well — there are a lot of similarities between sales and dating.
David: Massive similarities. People think just being a nice guy or working hard should be enough. But really, those are just prerequisites — they’re standard. You have to earn value.
In dating, as teenagers we often lose girlfriends to older, richer, sportier guys because they bring more value at that stage. In business, you can speed up how valuable you are by focusing on the other person. Where are they now? Where do they want to get to? They could get there on their own, but you can get them there faster, easier, with fewer headaches.
It’s like walking from London to Birmingham versus paying to go by car. That’s what most businesses do: they save people time, stress, and hassle.
Darren: That reminds me of the “sell me this pen” example.
David: Yes — the classic. People hear “sell me this pen” and immediately start lying. “It’s limited edition, gold ink.” Nonsense. The first thing 90% of people do is lie, because they panic. But the right first question is: do you need a pen?
Sales is like sport
There are so many variations: inbound, outbound, B2B, B2C, high-ticket, low-ticket. The context matters. Selling a £5,000 collector’s pen is different from selling a pack of ten for £1 outside a student union. Without context, the exercise sets people up to fail.
Darren: And it’s the same with dating, isn’t it? You need to ask what the other person wants and listen to the answers, not just launch into a spiel. That’s where a lot of salespeople go wrong — they don’t ask what you actually need or what your problem is in the first place.
David: Exactly. And when they do ask, it’s often basic, survey-style questions — height, age, budget, tick boxes — rather than discovery. Every question should locate the person’s position, need, and want, and then you go three levels deeper. If someone says, “Yeah, I need a pen,” don’t jump to pitching. Ask: “What’s got you looking? Broke your old one? Is it a replacement? What type do you normally buy? What will it be used for? Is it a gift?”
If someone says, “I want a pen for life, as an asset to pass on to my son, I’m buying to celebrate my company hitting £10m turnover,” then a £2,000 collector’s edition Montblanc may be right. If it’s for a four-year-old to chew and slam into a table, obviously not. Going down the rabbit hole uncovers the real need — otherwise you add resistance and kill flow by asking the wrong questions or hearing only what you want to hear. People hear, but they don’t listen.
Darren: How do you help people with that moment where they have to say the price — the “this is where I ask for the sale” bit — especially on a stage, in a presentation, or face to face?
David: Selling one-to-one, one-to-many, on the phone, face to face, or from stage — all different sports. I’ve sold from stage, but it’s not my sweet spot. On the phone or in person, the biggest issue is people haven’t created enough want and need, so the price feels uncomfortable.
If we’ve truly established value, the price conversation gets easier. Imagine I’m selling you a £10,000 box that prints £100,000 each month — and you know that to be true. Saying “it’s £10,000” is easy. If the box is cloudy — might print, might not — you’ll be nervous at any price.
Most people run their calls backwards: find trivial common ground, ask a few default questions, rush to the pitch, then dump the price. At that point the buyer isn’t ready, so of course you feel awkward. You want them thinking, “This sounds great; I’m worried it’ll be expensive.” That leaning-in feeling is the green light.
If someone asks “How much is it?” too early, I’ll ask a question before answering. “Money aside — if you don’t like it, the price doesn’t matter — do you think this will get you from A to B like you said?” When they say yes, I ask why that matters, and we go three levels deeper. Then: “So if this takes you from £100k to £500k a month, scales your team, and reduces stress — would exchanging that for £9,400 be a good trade?” You’re tying price to their articulated value, not pushing numbers at them.
Darren: So you’re getting a yes that it’s what they want before they even know cost — and why they want it.
David: Right. “I like a McLaren” isn’t the same as “I’m open to buying one.” I say people flip a switch from interested party to potential buyer. You feel it — they lean in, ask ownership questions, picture how it works. Objections then help you map where they are. Many treat every question as a fight. Don’t. Explore it. “Who on your team won’t like this? Why? What happened last time?” Then: “Apart from that, anything else?” If not, you can say, “If we solve this, is this something you want to move forward with today?”
Darren: And for big-ticket purchases, it’s irrational to expect no questions.
David: Exactly. If it’s one of the biggest buys of their life, of course they’ll have questions. That doesn’t mean “no.” It means “help me get comfortable.” Also — don’t save objections for the end. Early “objection prevention” beats late “objection handling.” If someone’s silently thinking “this will be expensive” for 45 minutes, by the time they say it, it’s cemented.
Early in the convo I might say, “We’re not the cheapest. I only want you to do this if it makes you more than it costs. If I can prove it’s an asset, not a liability — open to it?” They’ll say, “Depends how much.” I’ll anchor a range and keep moving. Now they’re engaged again. Shift perspective, belief, or knowledge before you ask for the order.
Darren: Some people worry that bringing up objections plants ideas. How do you coach them past that?
David: Language gives it away — “I don’t want to, I don’t feel like…”
It’s not about you. It’s about the prospect
If the best thing for them is to surface and resolve a fear early, then do it — even if it makes you uncomfortable. You’re not here to be entertained; you’re here to be effective, like a nurse doing what’s best for the patient, even if the patient doesn’t love needles.
Darren: Same with websites. Clients say, “I want it blue, I want these pages.” The site isn’t for you — it’s for your customers.
David: Totally. I’ll even ask owners, “How often do you go on your website?” You’re the last person who should be there. It’s for prospects. Make it effective for them. My landing pages: once they work, I don’t stare at them. I’m on calls.
Darren: Like property investing — don’t fall in love with the wallpaper. Look at the numbers.
David: Exactly. Saying “I don’t like purple, so I won’t take £20 notes” would be insane — but people do the equivalent in business. Do you want a show pony, or a money maker? A great website often goes unnoticed — it just gets the job done fast. Same with great sales: customers don’t say, “Wow, I got sold.” They say, “I’m excited to get started.”
Darren: People sometimes say Amazon isn’t “well designed.” It’s the most efficient tool on earth for taking money — which is the point.
David: It’s built to pull you in, help you buy, and get out. People can dislike it and still use it because the need outweighs the pain. That’s what we want in sales: not using us should be more painful than using us. No one enjoys paying me — they thank me 12 weeks later when they’ve gone from £30k a month to £200k. I tell clients: you won’t love paying today, but you’ll tell people for years you’re glad you did.
Darren: For owners listening — cold calling, inbound, presentations — what helps them go from £30k to £200k a month?
David: Quick case in solar. We work across 19 industries, but solar’s a clear example. Many are electricians pivoting to a £10k “want” purchase without learning to sell high ticket. They’re converting 2–3 in 10. We take them to 70%.
How? We rarely pitch product until they want it. People don’t care about “solar” per se — they care about not renting electricity, energy independence, fear of bills in retirement. We get them to work out their bill, past, present, and future, and realise the real problem. When they do the maths, they feel the pain — the switch flips from “interested” to “I have to move.”
On appointment setting, we go beyond “are you a homeowner / will you both be there?” A five-minute deeper qual takes show-up rates from 30–40% to 60–70%. Same leads, different conversations, 10x output.
Darren: And you bolt in automations to nurture, but the core is better conversations.
David: Yes — get them to “staying the same is no longer an option.” Only then does “who do we work with?” matter — and that’s when you outshine competitors. Warranty talk before they’ve decided to buy is pointless. Save it for checkout.
Darren: My business partner was literally sold a vacuum warranty before choosing a vacuum. Same mistake.
David: Exactly. Get them to the realisation themselves. When you tell them, they might nod. When they compute it, there’s a micro-argument in their head — “That can’t be right… wait… it is.” That emotional shift is gold.
Darren: I wish everyone worked with someone like you. We can send more traffic and enquiries, but if they can’t convert, it just creates stress.
David: Low conversions kill confidence and execution. Like a striker scoring 1 in 20 — after a while they just hoof it. At 7 in 10, they visualise top bins each time. Sales is mindset, skill set, habits. Without mindset, skills won’t get used; without skills, habits are busywork. Build belief through reps — confidence isn’t bottled; it’s earned.
Darren: What other industries have you worked with or want to work with?
David: We’re in 19 industries across nine countries — private education in the States, PMP/CPD-type training, selling into schools (£250k deals), coaches, consultants, experts, recruitment, training, insurance, solar, flooring, heating, boilers — inbound and outbound. If you sell on phone/face to face with a two-step (setter → closer), and your ticket is above ~£2.5k, we can likely help.
We talk about solar a lot on my socials because focus creates transferability. Most of my posted sales calls barely mention product — it’s beliefs, confidence, process, perspective-shift.
Darren: And you had that TikTok client who went from £30k to £250k a month…
David: Yep — with no sales team initially. He’ll be at £700–£750k a month soon — not because we’re magic, but because he ran with it. At 30% margins, going from £30k to £3m a year, from £9k profit a month to a business with systems, skills, and coachability — that changes a life. More holidays, more time, built team and automation, less guilt stepping away — that’s real quality of life from better communication and process.
Darren: Improve conversion first, then get more leads — otherwise you’re just busier.
David: Car analogy: don’t just pour more fuel (leads) into a badly set-up track car. We upgrade tyres, suspension, tune the engine — then we train the driver. Some great drivers can get decent laps out of bad cars, but most people want a great car and the skills to drive it. We build the forever asset — sales system, skills, processes — plus training manuals so you can replace yourself: hire a setter, hire a closer, and scale.
Darren: That’s the key:
Replace yourself so it’s replicable
David: And most don’t know how to hire salespeople. So we help with training manuals, scripts, processes. Our 28-day sprint: unlock revenue fast by re-engaging pipeline, close some deals, use that cash to run an advert (we give you ad + hiring process) to hire a setter. Setter fills your calendar so you spend more time closing, then hire a closer, step back again. Simple—after eight years of mistakes to learn what actually works.
I like two-stage because results are quick. If you’ve been getting 30 leads a month for six months and haven’t closed them, we’ll give you a foolproof plan to re-engage old leads, lost proposals, no-shows, and you’ll often unlock months of revenue in days. One solar client doing £10k/month did £40k in eight days. They weren’t miles off — just 5% off target in a few places.
Darren: I’m sure people listening want in. What’s the best way to contact you?
David: We’ve built a system that doesn’t force you straight onto a call. Go to The Ultimate Sales Academy. Pop your details in and watch a 10-minute explainer: who we help, how we help. There’s also “Frank,” our AI chat that has full conversations so you can experience our sales system.
Ask yourself: if I quit my job and became your salesperson, how much more would you make? If the answer is “a lot,” then you already know we can teach you to do the same. Watch the video, book a call, and let’s help you.
Darren: Fantastic. I’ll put that link below the podcast so listeners can click straight through and speak to David. Thank you for being a guest.
David: Thanks, mate. Really enjoyed it.
Connect with David:
David Angel, also known as The Sales Angel, has built his reputation working across 19 industries and nine countries, helping businesses transform their sales performance. From coaching electricians who pivoted into solar, to guiding consultants, recruiters and training firms, he specialises in turning low-converting processes into scalable, high-profit systems. With years of experience refining mindset, skill set and habits, David brings practical, no-nonsense strategies that help business owners replace themselves in the sales process and achieve real growth.
Website: https://theultimatesalestrainingacademy.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/iamthesalesangel/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/davidthesalesangel/?hl=en-gb
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidthesalesangel/?originalSubdomain=uk
About your host:
Darren has worked within digital marketing since the last century, and was the first in-house web designer for video games retailer GAME in the UK, known as Electronics Boutique in the States. After co-founding his own agency, Engage Web, in 2009, Darren has worked with clients around the world, including Australia, Canada and the USA.
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/engaging-marketeer/id1612454837
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrenjamieson/
Engaging Marketeer: https://engagingmarketeer.com
Engage Web: https://www.engageweb.co.uk
