Darren Jamieson:
On this week’s episode of The Engaging Marketeer, I’m going to talk about something completely different to marketing. Well, actually I say that. It is relevant to marketing because it is a way that you can destroy your own brand. Completely destroy your brand very, very quickly.
I’ve seen over the years quite a few people who are in business and they’ll say something on social media that’s their own personal beliefs, and it causes a problem. Maybe they’ll come out with some outlandish comment that could be considered sexist, discriminatory, racist, whatever, and it affects their business as well. It bloody should.
So what this is about—let me start from the beginning. I’m a trustee for a charity, right? So this is a bit of a story here. I’m a trustee for a charity called Wirral Mencap. And Wirral Mencap is based in Birkenhead, and they help adults with learning disabilities. So they help them in life. They help them with education, with socialising, with taking them out to events, that kind of thing. So they have a good quality of social activity and life and training for all the kind of stuff that other people might take for granted.
And before I started working with Wirral Mencap, I was not aware of a lot of the casual discrimination that exists within the world. I was not aware that this sort of stuff happened. And I may well have done something myself and not been aware of it. For example, if an adult with learning disabilities is out on the street with someone helping them, and they’re walking down the road, quite often somebody will walk past and they will address the person that’s with them, rather than themselves. They don’t speak directly to them. They don’t make eye contact with them. They address the other person. And that is a form of discrimination because they don’t think that person is going to react to them. So they don’t look at them directly and don’t talk to them directly. And that’s the kind of thing I was never really aware of. And now I am, and I see it, and I point it out and try to help wherever I can.
Now, that to one side, I am also, as many people will know, a bit of a nerd. Bit of a geek. I go to conventions. I go to a Transformers convention in particular. I go to Comic-Con. I go to movie and memorabilia conventions. I pay to get autographs and photographs with celebrities and voice actors. I’ve got loads of pictures with different actors from sci-fi shows over the years, and I’ve paid ridiculous amounts of money to do that, and I don’t really want to think about all that right now because that’s very expensive.
But one of the conventions I go to is a Transformers convention. And the Transformers conventions I’ve been going to since 2001, I think, was my first one. So this is 2025 now. We’re talking, what’s that, 24 years? I’ve got almost a quarter of a century I’ve been going to Transformers conventions, at least once a year, somewhere around the UK.
And the Transformers community is pretty well regarded as being very inclusive. It’s a very inclusive community. There are people of all types of ability, disability. There are people of multiple genders. There are people who have multiple sexual orientations. There are people who are trans. There are people who are bi. It’s a very inclusive community. There’s no judgement. There doesn’t appear to be a lot of judgement—except in some cases.
And this is one of the cases I encountered very recently, because it seems that there are levels of discrimination within even inclusive communities such as this that are acceptable.
And that worries me. Because it’s almost a case of: it’s okay to have a go at these kinds of people, but not others. This is okay. This is acceptable.
And this stemmed from a Facebook group. A Facebook group about people that are going to this particular Transformers convention. So there’s, I don’t know, a few hundred people in this group. Maybe five, six hundred people. Not all of them are going to the convention. Some have been before, some are going now. About five or six hundred people. And it’s important to point out that this is not an official group. This is not an official group run by the convention itself. So it’s distant from that, and it’s administered by one of the people attending the conventions.
And there was a fairly innocuous post put in the unofficial convention group. A fairly innocuous post, which was about the hygiene habits of attendees of conventions. And it was an image. And for those of you watching on the video, we’ll put the screenshot up of this. So if you’re watching on YouTube, this will be up on the screen. If you’re listening to this on iTunes, Spotify, whatever, then you won’t see this—but pop along to the YouTube video and you’ll see it.
It was a video put up that was a meme of somebody at a convention holding up a placard, and the placard reads:
If you can afford to attend a convention, you can afford deodorant
Seems fair enough. At first glance, it seems fair enough. Because if you go to conventions, there tends to be a lot of people there. It tends to be very hot. There can be a lot of smells. That’s fine. That’s absolutely fine. And the comment was: “Friendly reminder, attendees—bring deodorant.”
And you think, well, what’s wrong with that? What’s wrong with that?
As the comments within this went on, it became clear that there was reference to people not showering. People not showering. Not using deodorant. And I thought, well, do you know what? They’re making sense in a way because it’s fair to everybody if people do shower and use deodorant when you’re going to be in a hot room.
But it should be important to point out that not everybody that has a problem with odour doesn’t shower. Not everybody that has a problem with odour doesn’t use deodorant. And by making these posts, you are making them feel very awkward. Very uncomfortable. Particularly for people that have anxiety and concerns about their own smell. Do I smell? Do I have hygiene issues? I don’t know. And if you are making jokes about it like this, then that is going to be a problem.
So I commented on this, and I put in: it doesn’t seem that friendly. Remember not to body shame anyone. Some people do struggle with it. And the hotel’s air con will undoubtedly have unexpected issues like it has in the last two years. Because the room that we’re in, it does have frequent air con issues. To the point where I think the air con is non-existent. And they just say every year, “Oh I’m sorry, it seems to be temporarily unavailable this year.” But that’s the case. And I pointed out it will be very hot.
And someone else came in and said, “I’m not body shaming. It’s been stated by lots of attendees that some people don’t shower or use deodorant.” And you see, that’s the problem. It’s been stated by lots of attendees. Other people have said that many people don’t shower or use deodorant. They don’t know. They don’t. Unless you’ve followed somebody around for the whole of the 48 or 72 hours of the convention, and you followed them into their hotel room, and you’ve watched them the whole time—you don’t know that somebody is not using a shower. Somebody is not using deodorant.
So by making a post such as this, and commenting on it, you are kind of insinuating that people smell. You are kind of insinuating that they have poor hygiene. That they are dirty. That they are not using deodorant because there is a smell.
That is not necessarily the case. There are people with other reasons why there might be a smell. So you should not be discriminating against people because of this. You should not be putting up memes about them in Facebook groups and poking fun at them, which they are.
And this is meant to be an inclusive fanbase. This is meant to be a fanbase so that we don’t discriminate. We don’t mock people. We don’t poke fun at people who are disabled. We don’t poke fun at people that have different sexual orientations. We don’t poke fun at people that have different genders. We don’t do that. It’s not something that happens here.
Yet it seems to be acceptable. It seems to be okay that we can poke fun at people who we think might be a bit pongy. People who might be a bit smelly. When let’s be honest, it is a convention of people of all shapes and sizes. It is in the summer. It is in August. It is going to be a little bit smelly. It’s going to happen. There’s going to be people that can smell.
So you should not be singling people out and saying, “Ah, if there’s someone that smells here, then it’s because they don’t shower. It’s because they don’t use deodorant.” No. That is not necessarily the case.
And I made this point, and I said that is my point. And I’m just reading this out as I put it:
That’s my point. How do they know? Someone smelling of body odour does not necessarily mean they haven’t showered or they haven’t used deodorant, in the same way that someone stood up does not necessarily mean they’re able-bodied.
And I gave my own example. Nobody knows to look at me that my spine is twisted. I’ve got scoliosis. If I stand up for a long time, it causes me a bit of pain. I get judged if I take a seat at a train station when someone older is standing. It’s not obvious.
Yes, remind people to shower. Yes, remind people to use deodorant and antiperspirant. But don’t assume that because someone smells that they’re dirty and haven’t showered. It’s not necessarily the case.
And then this guy’s gone on to actually put—and the response was, where is it? Let me just go back to this. “I never assumed anything,” he says. “Never assumed anything.” It’s like, well, you did. You’re assuming that if somebody smells, it’s because they don’t use deodorant and they haven’t showered. That is not the case.
And this went on. I’m going to name this guy because I think it’s important that I do. His name’s Chris Gaunt. Chris Gaunt. He is a Transformers fan and he seems to think it’s okay to pick on people because they might potentially smell.
And I didn’t realise when I was commenting on this and I was explaining that you shouldn’t be picking people out for this, that I was actually arguing with a four-year-old. Because Chris Gaunt actually came in and said, “All I said was bring deodorant as it gets hot in there. Why are you so butthurt about this? I’m guessing you stink and feel attacked.”
It’s like, my God, I am arguing with a child. I am actually arguing with a f***ing child.
And he then blocked me from the group and started another post—a couple of days—well, later that day, saying how I attacked him and I was wrong. And then loads of people came in and defended me. And he deleted that post when it got out of hand for him.
And I’ve had people come to me thanking me for sticking up for them. One person who was disabled came to me and said, “Thank you for standing up for me. I appreciate that. I think it’s got out of control there. I’ll keep sticking up for you until I get banned from the group.”
I thought that was nice. That was nice.
But the more I thought about it, the more I thought how discriminatory this actually is. Because imagine if somebody has a stoma bag. Imagine if somebody in the room has a stoma bag. And let’s face it, the odds—mathematically—are that probably at least one person in that room does. There’s like 600 or 700 people in there. And they are Transformers nerds. These are people that are very introverted, a lot of them. There’s probably somebody in there that has a stoma bag.
And if you have someone going around going, “God, somebody stinks around here. Somebody really smells around here. They’re clearly not showering. They’re clearly not using deodorant,” how’s that person going to feel?
It’s like, do they mean me? Is that me? Has something happened? Is there something wrong?
And it’s going to make you feel very self-conscious and very aware of yourself. And it is not right. You should not be picking on people for this. You should not be isolating people for this and basically making them an element of fun, an element of mockery—because there seems to be some sort of acceptable discrimination that is okay, that is allowed.
And it really fing pisses me off. Quite frankly, it really fing pisses me off.
Especially when you consider that the guy doing this is a Transformers fan. He is—and I count myself in this as well—a nerd. He plays with plastic robots. I play with plastic robots.
And there is an element within society, I’ve noticed, where people tend to—once they get to a certain level—they pull the ladder up, and they pick on people below them. Because they think, “It’s fine to pick on people below me. So long as someone’s not picking on me, it’s okay for me to pick on the person below me.”
And that is exactly what he is doing. He’s picking on the people below him—the nerds who he thinks smell—as opposed to the other nerds like himself.
And it’s only a matter of time before someone above him picks on him. Because, “Ah, he’s the nerd. He’s the guy that plays with plastic robots. He’s the guy that buys toys. He’s the guy that goes to conventions. He’s the guy that wears children’s t-shirts. Let’s pick on him—the nerd.” Yet it’s okay for him to pick on someone else.
And this really bothers me. This casual discrimination. This casual insulting of someone you perceive to be in a lower class to yourself or a lower level to yourself.
Casual discrimination is still discrimination
And that is what immediately sets you aside from someone else, and sets you as someone who really, really can damage their reputation online. Damage their reputation within business.
And because he owns the group, he’s like the king of his own little castle. And he may have deleted the post where he then accused me of all sorts and people stuck up for me and defended what I’d said, and said that he was acting out of order.
And then a couple of days later, he put on another post and said, “I’m posting this to issue an apology to everyone.” An apology. That’s nice. He’s making an apology. “What occurred over the last 24 hours was unacceptable. Let’s look forward to the next weekend together.”
That sounds okay, doesn’t it? That sounds like he’s made an apology and he’s learned from his mistake.
And he says—oh, somebody commented—“Oh, it just makes you human. It takes courage to say that you’re wrong and apologise. Let’s learn and move forward.”
But he’s not. He’s not admitting he’s wrong.
Somebody else says, “Mate, you said nothing wrong. That post is normal. It’s made by three or four people every year.” Oh, three or four people have a go at people that have body odour every year, do they? That makes it okay?
So if three or four people take the piss out of others for smelling, that’s fine. Don’t worry about it. Because a few people do that, it’s all right to jump on the bandwagon and have a go at people because they might potentially smell. Don’t worry—join us! Let’s take the piss out of them! Let’s laugh at them! “Ha ha—you f***ing smell!”
Yeah. That’s okay then.
And then this went on. “There was some drama in the group. It’s been dealt with. Just a reminder to bring deodorant.” And somebody got overly offended by it.
That’s me. I got overly offended by it, apparently.
And then somebody else, “Oh, what happened mate?” All the “you okay huns”. “Are you okay, mate?” “Are you okay, Chris?” “Hey Chris G, what happened man? Let’s hear all about it.”
And then he comes in. “Basically someone was getting really annoyed over a simple post about bringing deodorant. And they went off on a massive rant and kept trying to label me as discriminating people with BO. Nothing I said was stopping them. I ended up losing my temper.”
That’s not really an apology for what happened, is it?
It’s not really an apology for what happened. Because someone else went on a massive rant because he was discriminating against people that might potentially smell. And he ended up then calling me a “stinky poopy pants” and saying I was “butthurt”.
Why have I recorded this podcast?
Is it because I just want to have a bit of a rant?
Is it because I’m on a platform to make sure this guy understands that he can’t do this kind of shit—live in his own private castle and have everybody, all the sticker fans within his group, say “Hey you okay hun? Everything okay? Everything good?”
No. I’m doing this because I want to make sure it’s clear that casual discrimination such as this is not okay.
Picking on people who are perceived to be of a lower class than you, perceived to be in a lower element than you, a lower rung on the ladder than you—whatever it may be—is not okay.
Help people. Be nice to people. Stand up for people. Stick up for people.
Don’t kick them. Don’t hit them. Don’t say bad things about them. Don’t make them feel bad about themselves. Don’t feed people’s anxiety by talking about them and posting about them and making memes about them.
If you do that, I’m going to come for you. I’m going to come for you because it pisses me off. This kind of—I’m going to call it—online bullying. This kind of online bullying really pisses me off. It’s the thing that triggers me. Quite frankly, I do get really triggered by this.
So if you are an online bully, then reach out to me. I’d love to have a conversation. I don’t think you’d like it, but I’d love to have a conversation.
So thank you for listening to this podcast. I will catch you on the next episode.
About your host:
Darren has worked within digital marketing since the last century, and was the first in-house web designer for video games retailer GAME in the UK, known as Electronics Boutique in the States. After co-founding his own agency, Engage Web, in 2009, Darren has worked with clients around the world, including Australia, Canada and the USA.
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/engaging-marketeer/id1612454837
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrenjamieson/
Engaging Marketeer: https://engagingmarketeer.com
Engage Web: https://www.engageweb.co.uk
