Darren Jamieson: The government needs to be building houses. They need to be encouraging private investors and developers to build more houses and to make the process quicker.
I’ve been hesitant about borrowing money from people I didn’t know. I’ve seen people do it badly all over social media, acting like they’re the big shots, and then they disappear. I say this at our event quite often: I could get any speaker up here for 45 minutes, and you’d leave thinking you have to do what they do.
On today’s episode of The Engaging Marketeer, I am joined by Kieran Toner of KIEBA Property. Kieran is a property investor, mentor, trainer, and runs property networking events. I think it’s fair to say you like a bit of property?
Kieran Toner: Yes, I do.
[01:08]
Darren Jamieson: So, what got you started in property in the first place?
Kieran Toner: Believe it or not, I don’t know. I spent my 20s snowboarding, windsurfing, teaching around the world, and traveling. When I moved back to the UK, I was expecting a mundane office life. I live in Chester, so I did a brief stint at MBNA—which was awful.
I then spent a couple of years landscaping with a friend who had a landscaping business. We wrapped that up around the credit crunch, and I was figuring out what to do next. Then I picked up a book—The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferris—which changed my thinking on different ways to make a living. That led me to Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and I had another lightbulb moment.
I realized I didn’t know what I didn’t know. So, I started looking for investment opportunities. I had some capital saved up and planned to buy a property, renovate it myself, and hold onto it as a pension investment.
[02:45]
Darren Jamieson: At this point, you hadn’t had any property training, right?
Kieran Toner: No. I’d read a couple of books and done some research online. I started viewing properties and bought my first one—a £65,000 ex-council house in Birkenhead. My plan was simple: fix it up myself, take a few months, and then I’d have something for the future.
Darren Jamieson: What year was that?
Kieran Toner: 2010.
Darren Jamieson: A £65,000 house in 2010! That must have been a decent size?
Kieran Toner: Yeah, it was a three-bed mid-terrace. There’s not a lot of capital appreciation in some areas, but the rental income is strong. That was my main focus.
[04:11]
Darren Jamieson: You mentioned you were skeptical of property networking events at first. What changed?
Kieran Toner: I initially sat at the back of the room, arms folded, thinking, What’s the catch? But then I realized—these people know something I don’t. I had run out of money and needed to learn more about buying below market value and structuring deals differently.
So, I sought mentorship. That’s when I started learning about direct-to-vendor deals, lease options, and structuring deals creatively.
Darren Jamieson: How did you find negotiating with vendors? Selling a home is an emotional decision.
Kieran Toner: You’d think so, but in reality, many people who reach out already want to sell. Often, they’re motivated by financial struggles, divorce, relocation, or just not wanting the hassle of selling traditionally. My approach was always to be upfront: If you want the most money, list it on the open market. But if you want a quick, secure sale, let’s talk.
[09:19]
Darren Jamieson: Can you explain the below-market-value (BMV) concept for those unfamiliar with it?
Kieran Toner: Sure. We’d put out marketing campaigns targeting motivated sellers—flyers, online ads, etc. These are people who need to sell quickly, whether due to financial hardship, divorce, or an inherited property they don’t want. We negotiate a price that works for both sides, sometimes using creative finance options like lease options.
Darren Jamieson: So, you built your portfolio this way?
Kieran Toner: Yes, we bought eight properties in 12 months using these strategies. We also refinanced some properties to pull out equity and keep growing.
[16:34]
Darren Jamieson: You also moved into HMOs and rent-to-rent strategies?
Kieran Toner: Yes. We started leasing properties from landlords and converting them into professional house shares (HMOs). Landlords got a guaranteed rent, and we made a margin in the middle by renting out rooms individually. It turned into a solid cash-flowing business.
Darren Jamieson: Does HMO licensing concern you?
Kieran Toner: Not really. It’s already heavily regulated. We ensure all properties meet fire safety, gas, and electrical standards. There’s a strong demand for quality shared housing.
[28:56]
Darren Jamieson: You also did serviced accommodation (SA), right?
Kieran Toner: Yes. We built a business with 12 SA units in Chester pre-COVID, catering to tourists and contractors. Then COVID hit, and we reevaluated our strategy. We still run a few larger SA units, but we’re focusing more on owned assets now.
[35:59]
Darren Jamieson: Let’s talk politics. Why are landlords constantly being penalized?
Kieran Toner: It’s an easy vote-winner. They paint landlords as rich tycoons, but they’re not solving the housing problem. Section 24 tax changes have driven up rents and squeezed landlords. Instead of fixing the planning system and building more houses, they target landlords.
[44:02]
Darren Jamieson: So, you’re looking at property development now?
Kieran Toner: Yes, we’re focusing on small developments and conversions—turning underutilized land and buildings into homes. If anyone has land they want to develop, we’d love to chat!
[49:37]
Darren Jamieson: You also run a property networking event?
Kieran Toner: Yes, KIEBA Property Meet runs every second Monday of the month in Chester. It brings together investors, developers, and professionals to share insights and opportunities.
[57:06]
Darren Jamieson: If people want to connect with you, where can they find you?
Kieran Toner: Facebook is the best place—search KIEBA Property or my name, Kieran Toner. I’m also on LinkedIn and Instagram, but mostly for snowboarding pictures!
Darren Jamieson: Thank you, Kieran. This has been an insightful chat.
Kieran Toner: Thanks for having me!
