[00:48] Darren:
On this week’s Engaging Marketer, I’m speaking to Meg Calvin from Kansas in the United States. Meg was a preacher with the church at the age of 13 and a minister at 16. I’ll be speaking to Meg about how she got involved with that and what her thoughts are on that now. She now works as a coach, an author, and a book coach, helping people get what’s inside here out into the actual world. Let’s see what she’s got to say.
[01:15] Darren:
There’s no prep. You’ve not been prepped for this, so you have no idea what’s coming.
[01:18] Meg:
I have no idea. It’s a good thing I’m on an improv team.
[01:22] Darren:
Are you on an improv team?
[01:24] Meg:
I’m on an improv team, yep.
[01:26] Darren:
Well, let’s start with that then. What got you wanting to do improv?
[01:28] Meg:
It was my only regret in life that I didn’t study it in college.
[01:35] Darren:
Can you study it in college?
[01:38] Meg:
Oh yeah, one hundred percent.
[01:45] Meg:
I regret that I didn’t do that. In my late thirties, I was looking back over my life thinking, what haven’t I done that I want? You know, all the things you do in your late thirties. I thought, I’m going to start an improv troupe.
[02:00] Meg:
I started by taking a class and I loved it so much. I loved the freedom, the playful nature. I’m an author, so words are like seconds on cake for me.
[02:14] Meg:
I asked the teacher if I could pay her every week to teach me improv. She said, “Okay.” Then she said, “You don’t have to pay me.” I said, “No, no.” She said, “Could you get a troupe together?”
[02:31] Meg:
So I found six other people in our community who always wanted to do it or had done it. We’ve been together two years now. We’re called Snark Side of the Moon.
[02:38] Meg:
It’s the best. It’s so much fun. We do about five gigs a year. We play every Tuesday night. It’s such a creative exercise because if you’re in your head, trying to organise and rationalise, you will suck at improv.
[02:56] Meg:
It’s about being in flow with your stage partner and whatever character is coming through you.
[03:02] Darren:
I love the idea of it. I’ve never done improv, but I love the concept. There’s a show in the UK called Whose Line Is It Anyway.
[03:15] Meg:
Oh yeah.
[03:20] Darren:
Ryan Stiles is on both versions.
[03:31] Meg:
Yeah, he’s been doing improv for about forty years.
[03:37] Darren:
I’d be terrified going on stage not knowing what’s going to happen. You get suggestions from the audience, don’t you?
[04:07] Meg:
I like to compare it to MMA fighting, which I don’t enjoy watching. I like boxing, but MMA is too much blood for me.
[04:20] Meg:
From the outside, MMA looks like there are no rules. But there are rules. Improv is the same.
[04:44] Meg:
Never deny your partner’s reality. Always yes and. Define the relationship within three to five seconds. Start in the middle of the scene.
[05:37] Meg:
If you try to be funny, you will fail. If you fully embody the character and stay present, you will be funny.
[06:29] Meg:
Improv is different from writing fiction or non-fiction. The muse comes from a different place.
[06:53] Meg:
In improv, the character comes to me through my feet.
[07:18] Meg:
They tell me their accent, gender, posture. I have to let it come through my body.
[07:49] Darren:
There’s so much good advice there. Yes and comes up in sales too.
[08:26] Darren:
Sales and dating are very similar.
[09:14] Meg:
I love sales. I have a script, but ninety percent of the time I go off script if the energy calls for it.
[09:49] Meg:
I’ll say, “I’m open to being wrong. Can I ask you a direct question?”
[10:04] Meg:
That’s the connection between improv and sales calls.
[10:32] Darren:
Do you think salespeople should do improv?
[10:38] Meg:
Yes. One hundred percent.
[10:50] Meg:
I had a dream last night about Tina Fey.
[11:29] Darren:
You started preaching at thirteen. What made you want to do that?
[11:38] Meg:
I loved the stage. There wasn’t love or validation at home, so the church met that need.
[12:13] Meg:
My grandmother pushed me to preach. I was raised United Methodist, so women were ordained.
[12:56] Meg:
I’m thankful that season is behind me, but thankful for what it gave me.
[13:03] Darren:
Why are you pleased it’s behind you?
[13:18] Meg:
I was creating from appeasing and impressing others, hustling, grinding, wearing burnout like a badge.
[14:20] Meg:
At thirty-two, I shifted to creating from joy and pleasure.
[15:09] Meg:
That’s why I’m pleased it’s behind me.
[15:29] Darren:
Do you think that’s healthy?
[15:41] Meg:
No. That became the basis of my second book.
[16:13] Meg:
It wasn’t healthy at all.
[17:03] Meg:
That’s why improv attracted me. It’s play.
[18:26] Meg:
Workaholic tendencies came from childhood.
[18:38] Darren:
Entrepreneurs and performers are similar.
[19:46] Meg:
Yes, totally.
[20:02] Meg:
That taps into shadow work.
[20:12] Darren:
I’ve never heard that term.
[20:30] Meg:
Shadow work is being with the parts of yourself you’re ashamed of.
[22:14] Meg:
I realised I do want attention, because it helps people.
[23:57] Meg:
That’s shadow work.
[24:40] Darren:
I’ve been accused of wanting attention too.
[24:52] Darren:
Let’s talk about your business.
[25:19] Meg:
Writing is pleasurable for me. I wrote my first book in 2016.
[26:20] Meg:
Ministers whispered about book ideas but felt guilty monetising.
[27:32] Meg:
In 2020, I started my business.
[28:01] Meg:
Traditional publishing broke my heart.
[28:52] Meg:
Now my team helps people write, market, and sell bestsellers.
[29:25] Darren:
Why do religious people feel guilty about money?
[30:06] Meg:
Different church cultures. Poverty equals piety.
[31:00] Darren:
It feels wrong to me.
[33:00] Meg:
Is it spiritual abuse? Possibly.
[34:24] Meg:
Brainwashing sounds strong, but that’s the word.
[36:37] Darren:
Do you hold ill will?
[36:43] Meg:
I did. I’ve healed it.
[38:12] Meg:
My last day with my grandmother was intense and healing.
[40:26] Darren:
You had a complicated relationship.
[40:36] Meg:
Yes. It’s been healing since she passed.
[42:08] Meg:
There’s good and bad in every system.
[42:49] Darren:
Let’s go back to books.
[43:27] Meg:
The first step is deciding.
[44:56] Meg:
Speak the decision out loud.
[46:07] Darren:
Should you tell other people?
[46:13] Meg:
Be picky with who you tell.
[47:05] Darren:
Who do you help?
[47:17] Meg:
Coaches and business owners who want authority.
[48:23] Meg:
A business I’d love to work with is women’s health and nutrition.
[50:28] Darren:
What’s the best way to get in touch with you?
[50:40] Meg:
I have five questions that give people clarity on their book idea.
[51:32] Meg:
You can find them on my website, megcalvin.com, and I’m on Instagram, TikTok, and Facebook.
[52:04] Darren:
Meg, thank you very much for being on the podcast.
[52:10] Meg:
Thank you, Darren. It was great to be with you today.
