Darren Jamieson [00:39] On this week’s episode of The Engaging Marketeer, I am taking a massive risk because I am interviewing Korina Venn, who helps people declutter their lives. And I am probably one of the biggest cluttermongers and hoarders you could ever possibly meet. I have thousands, no word of a lie, thousands of Transformers in my house. If Korina saw my house, she would have a field day. So, let’s see whether I own up to being a massive hoarder and what Korina says about clutter and your mental state and living in a nice clean perfect home.
Darren Jamieson [01:16] I can see from your your background as we discussed in the preamble to this that you live with an artist and you’re in a sort of an artist environment there and you being somebody that declutters people’s homes, those two don’t really mesh. How how does that work for you being a declutterer but living with a messy artist?
Korina Venn [01:35] Well, I love him, so that’s a bonus.
Darren Jamieson [01:39] That that goes a long way, doesn’t it?
Korina Venn [01:42] I find my experience that can only go so far, though. Yeah, he’s um he is he is messy, but messy for me, you know, he’s he’s quite he’s quite neat in his own kind of way, you know, because that’s just the way things flow in his studio. So, I’m not allowed to touch anything in his studio. The fact that I’m using his computer is a is a huge treat. Um, but it’s actually a calming space. I think we mentioned it yesterday. So, eVenn though for me it’s a little bit cluttered, it’s a calming state for him. And then when I’m when I’m in it, um, I feel calm because he’s calm, which is very interesting because when I do go and see clients, it’s not about what I want. It’s about what they want. It’s about what’s going to make them happy and comfortable in their home because they essentially are the ones that are going to be living there, not me.
Darren Jamieson [02:31] So, so is I mean I I know about the calming thing because I I experienced this myself and I’ll talk about that in a bit, but is there a difference between somebody’s home that’s cluttered and an artist studio that’s cluttered? Is there a different kind of clutter that you’re amongst now that an artist has that is calming?
Korina Venn [02:49] Yes, there there it is very different because it’s not really cluttered. I mean, you know, it depends on what you I’m looking around actually to see what I would change, but um everything has its place and that I think is the key and and what I’m trying to to to teach people or to help people because very often um and I don’t have a problem with social media. I have a problem with people going onto Instagram or any kind of social media platform and looking at something and saying, “Oh my gosh, I’m such a failure because my house doesn’t look like that.” Or I’m such a failure because I’m not fit and trim or I’m such a failure because I don’t eat this kind of way, you know, and so so we look at it in a holistic kind of way because what works for me might not work for you and so forth. So as long as everything has its place and it’s not dangerous. So there’s no wires on the floor, you’re not tripping, you’re not hurting yourself, my husband knows exactly where everything is. So even though I might come in and think, “Oh, it’s a little bit of a mess.” If I move a pencil, he’ll know that I’ve moved his pencil because it’s his domain and he’s comfortable and therefore it allows him to be creative, which is what he uses the space for.
Korina Venn [04:03] So, an organiser in my mind, a declutterer is not there to come into your environment and and change it so that you don’t feel comfortable and you feel like a like a guest in your own space, you know?
Darren Jamieson [04:15] So, cuz I’m I’m I’m quite a creative Well, I think I’m creative. Other people might disagree with me, but I think I’m creative. Um, I have I think it’s a creative space I’m in right now. You can’t see what’s behind the camera. There’s a lot. You would not like it, I feel. Is there a difference between what an artist considers clean or decluttered or what somebody else might consider? I mean, do people have different perceptions clutter is?
Korina Venn [04:46] I mean, even I had different perceptions. So I did a short course a while ago on um on hoarding disorder which seems to be growing in the UK and all the other countries and it’s a lot of TV programs about it.
Darren Jamieson [04:54] TV programs. Yeah. I don’t like to watch those programs actually cuz I’m quite sensitive and I just feel really bad for for the people.
Korina Venn [05:00] I feel they they do tend to make the person that is the hoard and make them the villain of the piece as though we’re we’re laughing at them in a It upsets me because it’s so not true and it and it’s there’s a bigger picture behind everybody, right? It’s not just what you see. But anyway, there’s nine stages, I think, if if I’ve listened to the um training correctly, nine stages to hoarding, for example. And so for me, a person’s house, a hoarded person’s house was on level three, but actually it’s only really considered a danger on level eight. So I was even shocked with that. So what I consider maybe too much is not too much for somebody else. And it’s also important to understand the story behind the person.
Korina Venn [05:51] And so when I first got into this, which was very interesting, I thought I was going to my clients were going to be footballers wives and I was going to put labels on everything. It was all going to be pretty. I don’t eVenn have a label maker. I mean, I want one because it’s just a nice gadget to have, but I don’t I don’t have the need for it yet because there’s no point in decantering all your pastas and your rice and having beautiful labels when you can’t get to the kitchen. So, you know, and I I have found in my experience, most of my clients are not at that level of needing the labels. And I actually don’t like labels for myself because I get bored quite easily. So, if I use a beautiful jar for something this month, next month, I want to reorganise my kitchen and then I don’t want to use use it again. So, I don’t I don’t believe in labels for myself. I mean, they’re very popular and they’re pretty. So, again, it depends on your client. I won’t go to a client and say, “I’m not going to put labels on your items because if that’s what they want and helps them, then why not?”
Korina Venn [06:52] But your question was about when different types of idea of clutter. Yeah. from one person’s version to somebody else’s.
Korina Venn [07:04] So, for example, I have a client who who is just such a beautiful person. They’re all beautiful. I I always tell them they need to write books. I’m just fascinated with all their stories. And she’s a very intelligent, very um dynamic, professional lady. She’s got mobility issues, so she’s not able to sort her clothes out. She’s got the most exquisite clothes. She’s got very good taste. And she said, “Oh, I thought you were going to come and ask me to get rid of all your all my stuff cuz I’ve got so many of each.” I said, “Well, we’re not there yet.” Number one. Number two, you have the space. So, why must I make you get rid of something if you have the space and if you don’t want to get rid of it?
Korina Venn [07:40] So, I don’t know. People have this like misconception of what it is that I’m going to do. Um and that’s I think it’s important to meet the person before to explain to them you know like what is it that you think I’m going to do and actually this is what I am actually going to do and and you have to have a relationship with that person. So I would normally suggest we have a telephonic conversation or I come see you for half an hour because it is such an intimate relationship you’re entering with somebody they they’re quite exposed. It’s quite vulnerable for many. Um if you don’t get along then I’m not the right organiser for you. I know I don’t get offended by it because yeah just certain people click and certain people don’t.
Korina Venn [08:28] So yeah, I just I love it though. It’s fascinating.
Darren Jamieson [08:32] You mentioned a few moments ago about social media, people looking at social media and seeing what they see as an ideal home or an ideal living environment and they’re comparing their home to that and it’s not a it’s not a healthy perspective. What What’s your thoughts on that on how social media is determining people’s mental state, people’s happiness on their own environments?
Korina Venn [08:52] I think people are becoming a lot more alienated. We’re supposed to be we’re supposed to be living in communion with others. We’re supposed to have a village which we don’t have. And adding social media to that creates a a lot more of alienated people and it’s fake. I think people have to just remind themselves that a lot of it is fake. And now with AI is you have just no idea what’s fake and what’s not fake. And the thing is it’s just not reality. So it creates false expectations for yourself and of course you’re going to let yourself down and then it kind of becomes a vicious circle of letting yourself down, depression and so forth.
Korina Venn [09:37] So, I always tell people, including myself, if I’m feeling low, if I’m feeling a little bit sad, just stay off social media because it’s just even if you know it’s fake, it kind of plants a seed in your brain if you’re already heading into a spiral of negativity. It’s just not healthy for you.
Korina Venn [09:55] So, very often, I’ve got two boys, by the way, and an artist as a husband. So, can you imagine?
Darren Jamieson [10:03] I can imagine. Yeah, can imagine. And I’ve got two boys as well.
Korina Venn [10:06] And I am a little bit extreme. So I’ve had to lower my expectations so that I can have a happy home.
Korina Venn [10:13] Yeah. And I’ve also had to pick a place and that is my Pinterest place. So it’s my coffee station. It is my only place that I’m begging everyone not to touch and they will get into trouble if they touch it. Because when I’m feeling sad, I go and I think that gives me great pleasure, you know. Um, and then I have to go around the house and pick up the socks and the the cushions and the whatever, you know. So, it’s about keeping it real.
Korina Venn [10:44] And it’s not just about your home, it’s about your diet. So, I I I do like to look at it at a holistic way. So, for example, you get a lot of people that advertise these Mediterranean diets and you’ll live until you’re 90 and this person in this island. And I’m thinking okay let’s go to this island and let’s see what other variables are actually affecting the fact that they are living such a healthy positive life. So they have no social media probably they live in a small village they have siesta time or whatever you call it in Greece. They eat um foods that they have grown from their own, you know, ground or they they eat meat from the cows that they, you know, have as part of their family until they decide it’s time for them. No preservatives, nothing artificial.
Darren Jamieson [11:35] Yeah.
Korina Venn [11:36] So, you can’t compare, you know, and I think I think you have to be real. You can do the best that you can with what you have. I think that’s the whole idea. And just chill. Just, you know, Rome wasn’t built in a day. If you decide that you want to change your home, it’s a process depending on the person. You got to change your mindset. Like with everything else, it has to become a lifestyle that you can sustain. Not a lifestyle that I can sustain cuz I’m a very different person to you Darren and to my husband and you know.
Korina Venn [12:07] So, and then also if I go into a home with a family, everybody has to be on board because I don’t want to go and sort somebody’s life out and then the family’s not on board and then I cause a divorce. You know, these things are real. They can happen.
Darren Jamieson [12:21] Yeah. It doesn’t take much sometimes to just fuel, you know, fuel things.
Korina Venn [12:26] So, so what I find fascinating about this is my ignorance initially when I got into it and how much I’ve learned and how much how much I’ve grown and how much I can still grow and how passionate I am about it and how I have made a difference in so many people’s lives. Um, and also by building that that relationship and I’m not a therapist. I actually want to do a course because I think it will be very beneficial.
Korina Venn [12:56] And by building that relationship, you are able to tell people things like your husband’s deceased. You’re dealing with a lot of trauma, but now you are spending so much money on just trying to fill that void. And by the time you’re 60, you’re not going to have any of that money that your husband has so thoughtfully left for you. Can I arrange that a financial advisor can come and chat to you? You know, so that’s one of the things I’ve done. and you so you create this relationship. They trust you and then you’re able to help them. You’re able to see these gaps. Uh because it’s all wonderful to get your house looking amazing, but then when you run out of money and you spiral into depression and whatever, what’s going to happen to your house?
Korina Venn [13:38] So, and that’s why I say it’s a holistic approach. It’s not just going in and sorting out a room or a cupboard or, I don’t know, a certain space and then leaving. Um yeah, I just um it’s also dangerous. You don’t want to you don’t want to become a crutch either, you know.
Darren Jamieson [13:56] Yeah.
Korina Venn [13:57] Uh because at some point you have to say, “Okay, you actually you actually no longer need me now. You can do this by yourself.”
Darren Jamieson [14:02] Yeah.
Korina Venn [14:03] Yeah. You have to do it so it’s sustainable for them to continue.
Darren Jamieson [14:08] It has to be sustainable, but you also can’t just say, “Okay, thank you. Well, it was really lovely meeting you. You know, good luck.” You’ve got to tell them, “I’m here for you if you need, you know, and then kind of wean them off you.”
Korina Venn [14:19] Yeah.
Darren Jamieson [14:20] I was just thinking we It’s almost like an addict, doesn’t it? that you have to take them off it slowly. You can’t just go cold turkey and expect them to do it and they’ve got to be able to do it without you there.
Korina Venn [14:25] Exactly. It also depends on the person again. It always depends on the person and their unique situation. Um Yeah. And their background and you just have to listen. You just have to listen to them and not uh project your own clarity or your own oh I would like that coffee.
Korina Venn [14:46] You can make suggestions, you know, but it’s not about going and making things look pretty. It’s about going and making things practical and sustainable and then leaving them with a feeling that I can do this. You know, I love folding clothes. I know people think I’m crazy. It gives me it makes me calm. I absolutely love it and I get so excited when I come up with a new way of folding
Darren Jamieson [15:10] That makes you calm folding clothes.
Korina Venn [15:12] I love I love folding and I fold everybody’s clothes differently so that when I put them away I know which pair of socks go where.
Darren Jamieson [15:20] That’s got to be one of the strangest things I’ve ever heard on like three years of doing these podcasts. Got to hand it to you.
Korina Venn [15:28] Yeah. It gives me calmness and it’s just it’s like it’s like art for me. It’s art because it can make I can make like a a robe look pretty, you know.
Korina Venn [15:36] And and the nice thing about folding clothes is for the clothes that you don’t use often but you don’t want to get rid of, you can use them as part of your accessories in your room or um I don’t know like uh recently I helped a client and she had two bathrobes. So the one we just made this beautiful bow on and we left it in her bathroom as like a display next to her soaps and whatever. So it’s crazy. I know. But it’s about thinking out the box, you know?
Korina Venn [16:04] It doesn’t always have to be folded and in your cupboard, you know, it can be displayed if you love it, but it doesn’t fit you in your anymore, but you don’t want to give it away or if you’ve got those pair of ridiculous stilettos that you can’t wear around where I live because you’ll kill yourself, you know.
Darren Jamieson [16:15] Oh, tell me about it.
Korina Venn [16:17] Yeah.
Korina Venn [16:18] Yeah. So, so yeah, it’s fascinating. It’s also fascinating. It’s a cultural thing, you know, you got to get into the culture of people and how different they are culturally and work with that as well.
Korina Venn [16:35] So, it’s been interesting coming from South Africa.
Darren Jamieson [16:39] I’m interested to hear about your coffee station. So, you’re living with an artist who is obviously a little bit messy because I know what artists are like. He may be a very tidy artist, but it’s relative to an artist and two two boys who no matter how neat boys are, they’re messy for anyone else. So, this coffee station of yours, this is your oasis of calm in your house. Is this in the kitchen or is it in a different part of the house?
Korina Venn [17:01] So, it’s travelled with me actually. So, in South Africa, it was in my dining room and my husband actually I found this beautiful ornate frame and I asked him to put shells in it so I could I could display all my beautifully coloured cuz I love colour all my coloured mugs. Um, and it was in a in a very kind of antique-y cabinet. It was just exquisite with an orchid on the side. So, it was really a Pinterest.
Darren Jamieson [17:26] This sounds really nice.
Korina Venn [17:28] It was really nice. Now, anybody could use it. I don’t mind. I didn’t mind cleaning the machine, but they weren’t allowed to abuse it. So, use, do not abuse. Now, it’s sitting in the kitchen for now. It will go into my lounge probably. Um because it’s just such a beautiful accessory. I do want to get a really nice coffee machine, but I’ll save up for that one. Um yeah, because I love coffee.
Darren Jamieson [17:58] You see, when you said about your coffee machine and no one else is allowed to to to touch it, to damage it, to invade your neat area, it reminded me of what British families were like in the 70s and 80s where in a lot of British households, there would be a room that no one was allowed to go in.
Darren Jamieson [18:12] Now, we had one of those rooms. Yeah. Usually, it was a dining room. There was a dining table in there. It was set up for best and never used it. Yeah. Is that normal for people to have? Usually the house is an explosion of chaos, but there’s one room that’s good.
Korina Venn [18:34] No, not that I’ve seen. And I don’t think it’s healthy either to have a room. I think you should have the whole house to fit in with your lifestyle. The whole house. I mean, it’s my little quirky thing to have one little station, but I they are allowed to use it.
Korina Venn [18:46] And my kids make me coffee. They love making me coffee. But they
Darren Jamieson [18:52] You’ve got them trained, haVenn’t you?
Korina Venn [18:57] Sorry. You’ve got them trained.
Korina Venn [18:58] I do have them trained. They cook, too.
Darren Jamieson [19:01] Wow.
Korina Venn [19:02] And the little one folds his clothes. He loves folding clothes with me. He’s six.
Darren Jamieson [19:07] You’re joking. There’s got to be some sort. You should be writing a book on this if you haven’t already. How to get your kids to be perfect? Are they far from perfect? And they make you coffee and fold their own clothes. This is incredible.
Korina Venn [19:13] No, not the older one. The older one. I mean, I’ve just recently coloured my hair, but I owe him most of my grey hairs. The older one is like carbon copy of his dad, which I love, but he’s the artist. He’s the second artist in the family. He can’t close anything. He can’t He’s in such a rush. He doesn’t close things, you know. So, the time is precious. You haven’t got time to close things.
Darren Jamieson [19:39] No, he’s too busy, you know, wrecking the other parts of the house.
Korina Venn [19:44] But, uh, but yeah.
Korina Venn [19:46] No, I don’t think I think it’s also a cultural thing, but I also al also think um it’s a time like you know be after the war basically a lot of people didn’t have things and it was it was common for them to store stuff and to hoard stuff and to um hoard stuff basically and I think I think that’s kind of evolved into a different kind of hoarding and also I think because it’s so easy to buy cheap stuff now, which again, I don’t judge.
Korina Venn [20:19] I mean, I personally dislike certain I’m not even allowed if I’m I don’t even know if I’m allowed to mention, but I dislike certain like Temu, you can edit you can edit that out if you want.
Darren Jamieson [20:33] Fine Temu.
Korina Venn [20:34] Yeah, I just feel it just it just perpetuates this like need to shop, you know? Like I had a client and she was buying all the stuff from there. It was killing me. But of course, I couldn’t say anything to her because it’s her taste or she wants it or whatever. But then when she got a few things that were broken, I said, “Well, now you need to return them.” And she goes, “It’s so cheap. I’ll just chuck it.” And I’m like, “No, no, no, no, no.” You know?
Korina Venn [21:02] So, so I think the way that the world has evolved into this like consumerism and instant gratification is not helping. It’s feeding us, you know, and this like um dopamine kind of rush that we get from buying something, you know, which my son has, by the way. So, good luck to me. Um he loves it, you know, he he loves to spend money, you know, even if he’s even if I say, “No, you can’t buy that something.” Well, what do you want? I’ll buy you something. I’m like, “No, it’s just, you know,” and that’s the tough part is bringing, I think, kids up in this world where there’s all this instant gratification.
Korina Venn [21:38] They can just get things, you know. Um, but in the past things were precious and perhaps that’s why they had these rooms and they also had perhaps a lot more guests coming. I don’t know. They entertained a lot more in those years and so they needed that one room where they could host their guests.
Darren Jamieson [21:56] It could be as well because we didn’t have social media back then. So yeah, you weren’t taking pictures of your house and your holidays and putting them online. You had to show people what your life was like when you came around. And this is my perfect environment. So essentially that’s your Instagram room.
Korina Venn [22:13] Exactly. If they had Instagram at the time, which they didn’t. Yeah. And it was a status thing back then, I think. You know, the good furniture and whatever.
Korina Venn [22:20] We had a in South Africa actually. So my both my parents are Greek and um we had a lounge that we weren’t allowed to go into as kids unless the guests came. We had a separate lounge like a family room that we all sat in. But that lounge was like you know I mean it was I think they traumatised me cuz I was terrified of that lounge. We had the piano there and I mean I would never practise the piano cuz I was just so scared of that room. I don’t know. Yeah. Because it wasn’t lived in, you know.
Korina Venn [22:53] But the thing is that your h your house is like it shouldn’t be your museum. It should be your home. And so you should you paid for it. You’re paying for it. You’re renting it. You know, this is where you every single room needs to have a character and you need to enjoy it. Life’s too short not to enjoy your room.
Korina Venn [23:10] I’ve recently inherited stuff from my mom, just cups and sauces and whatever. And she and crystal glasses and which we never used growing up because they were for the guests, you know, and um and it’s also about your um h what’s the word I’m looking for? Uh oh, it all come to me. But you kind of get stuck on on that idea that you’re not allowed to use these crystal cups, you know. And then the other day I thought, so what if they break?
Korina Venn [23:42] Like it will be a shame. Of course, I’m going to look after them, but I mean, you know, I it’s my mom’s. I’d love to use them, you know, rather than just put them in the cupboard.
Darren Jamieson [23:49] They are made They’re made to be used.
Korina Venn [23:51] They’re made to be used and enjoyed. Exactly. And they’re beautiful. And am I really doing any justice to the artist who created them? You know, his vision for the purpose, you know, like you say, everything needs to have a purpose.
Korina Venn [24:01] So, use them. Use them wisely. Be careful with them. I mean, if they break, it’s heartbreaking, you know. And then save up money and buy something really good, you know. That’s my that’s what I try to do.
Korina Venn [24:14] If if you don’t, it reminds me of something um the comedian David Mitchell said on the show, Would I Lie to You? And he was talking about having brick in the house. And he was talking about a Toby jug that he put into a cupboard. And the line he said was, “It’s it’s comforting to know that someone’s going to have to deal with that when I die.”
Darren Jamieson [24:33] I know. I mean, that’s hysterical.
Korina Venn [24:36] It is funny, but you know, there’s a whole thing now called the Swedish Death Clean.
Darren Jamieson [24:41] Swedish Death Clean.
Korina Venn [24:44] Yes. It’s quite popular. Again, I’m so bad with names. I’m not exactly sure who read who wrote this book. I think it’s like a Norwegian or some Scandinavian, you know, cuz they’re very much into their minimalism and whatever. And it’s basically, it’s actually very interesting because uh baby boomers should really consider what they are going to leave when they gone cuz I mean, you know, we all have there’s one guarantee in life and that’s that you’re not going to live forever. Uh not yet anyway, thankfully.
Korina Venn [25:12] And um and so what are you doing when you are leaving this earth and leaving all your stuff for your family to deal with? So, it kind of gives you a guideline on how to prepare for your own death. I know it sounds gruesome, but it’s not because I think it’s quite nice because you have people things that are dear to you, but they may not be dear to the people who will find them in your home.
Korina Venn [25:38] So, leave notes. Say, “This is very dear to me because, or this is worth something, you should sell it.” Or, “I’d really like for this to go to my oldest son.” Because it’s another thing when you just assume as a person that when you die everything’s going to be all hunky dory and everyone’s going to get along and kumbaya and cry for you. But actually I’ve seen a lot of families and it causes huge um feuds between the families.
Korina Venn [26:03] Well, mom said that that ring was mine. Um or let’s just sell everything cuz I need the money. Um, so if you plan and you actually make a list of everything that you own and where it should go or what it’s worth or even put stickers on it or whatever. I know it sounds morbid, but it’s really not.
Korina Venn [26:22] And actually, it’s such a loving and caring thing to do for people that you care about because when you pass away, they have to deal with the emotional side of things. And very often, they’re going to get somebody just to clear the house. and those little treasures that your parents might have had for whatever reason are just going to get lost.
Korina Venn [26:39] So, it is just a way of thinking ahead. It’s not really It sounds a lot more morbid than it actually is.
Darren Jamieson [26:46] Yeah. So, we were talking before we started recording that I bought a house last year and it was uh from somebody that’s gone into an Alzheimer’s home and his daughter, he had one daughter and she lived quite far away and she didn’t want to come and empty the house. I don’t know whether it was painful memories or it was just too far or but there was stuff left in the house when I bought it.
Darren Jamieson [27:08] Like there were loads of school photos of his of his daughter and his grandkids and there were golf trophies. There was a golf bag. All of his stuff that he’d accumulated throughout his life was still there in display cabinets. And it was really depressing to see because you think well that that could be me in hopefully in 50 60 years but probably a lot sooner than that.
Darren Jamieson [27:26] And that that’s someone’s whole existence just then taken by a house clearance company and absolutely disposed of it’s horrible. So I’ve started thinking a lot about it as well.
Darren Jamieson [27:38] You know like uh my photographs are very dear to me but are they dear to somebody else? Then you actually do get I don’t do this yet but you do get professionals that actually digitise your photographs or they I think it’s important to do
Darren Jamieson [27:54] I do love to have kind of photographs to have a look at but honestly they’re just sitting in a little cupboard and then what am I you know what’s going to happen when I’m not here anymore you know and I’ve got two boys I don’t even have girls you know
Darren Jamieson [28:05] I’ve still got my mom’s tapestries in the loft because she spends so much time she put so much love in her tapestries it’s just not my kind of thing I don’t want them hanging around my house, but I can’t bring myself to give them away.
Darren Jamieson [28:18] So, I think it’s important and I think it’s helpful that that girl, I mean, she might even regret it, right? Because when you’ve just lost somebody, you have to deal with the emotions of it.
Darren Jamieson [28:31] And sometimes the quickest way to do it is just to get rid of everything. And I know she hasn’t lost anybody cuz her husband her dad’s still alive. But when somebody’s got Alzheimer’s or dementia cuz my dad had it, you lose them twice.
Darren Jamieson [28:44] Yeah. You lose them. The first the first time you lose them is when they don’t know who you are anymore. And then obviously when they pass away, you lose them again. So it is a very traumatic and emotional experience.
Korina Venn [29:01] Whereas if he had planned it you know let me just give you an example because it actually this permeates to everything okay so I’m quite an a late bloomer I got married late I had kids late but when I was in my 30s I went to the gynaecologist and I said right so what happens if I don’t meet somebody like I want to see you know what options do I have can I freeze my eggs can I what and she says no you you’re too old you should have thought of that when you were 25 and thinking, well, which 25 year old thinks about things like that, you know?
Korina Venn [29:33] So, like at the age I’m 50, how old am I now? 51. Can’t believe I’m 51. I still feel like I’m 31. But at the age of 51, I’m hopefully nowhere clear to like expiration date. But I do have to consider that these things are happening and they’re inevitable and we’re getting older. And I will make it easy for my kids when I’m gone because I don’t think it’s fair for them to have to deal with all my clutter.
Korina Venn [30:02] And everyone’s got clutter. I don’t care how neat you are. You all have those things that you’re not willing to part with. Like my wedding dress. Why am I keeping it?
Darren Jamieson [30:09] Because you say we keep stuff that we’re never going to use. It’s too important to us, but we couldn’t get rid of it. But eVenntually somebody’s just going to throw it in a skip.
Korina Venn [30:21] Exactly. Or but if you preserve it and look after it, they could possibly sell it or they could give it to somebody who could use it or they could donate it to somebody who can’t afford a wedding dress.
Korina Venn [30:33] So if you’re going to keep it, it’s fine. But make it part of your house. Like my wedding dress is in this beautiful uh white box. It’s just beautiful. And I’d never open it, but I know it’s there and it makes me smile.
Korina Venn [30:45] And one day somebody is just going to pull it out and it’s going to be impeccable and somebody else is going to be able to use it hopefully. I’m just not ready to let it go now.
Korina Venn [30:56] But, you know, and by that stage it will be vintage and even more, you know.
Darren Jamieson [31:02] So, to address the elephant in the room, so I’ve not brought it up yet. Um, I’m quite the hoarder. I’ve got a lot of stuff.
Darren Jamieson [31:09] Uh, I I’ve re well over this last year since I’ve moved into a new house of my own due to divorce. Um, I’ve been selling a lot of stuff that I’ve collected over the years and I’ve done about three and a half grand worth of stuff on eBay. I’ve sold.
Darren Jamieson [31:23] But I’ve still got a hell of a lot to get rid of. And I have a room in my my new house. It’s a three bed house. I’ve got one, it’s a box room, but it is, let’s just say it’s full.
Darren Jamieson [31:35] If I was playing Tetris, that is a complete lockout.
Darren Jamieson [31:41] Um, do people, cuz we talked about people having a a perfect room in their otherwise normal house. Let’s flip it the other way.
Darren Jamieson [31:47] Is there many people do what I do where they have a an attempt at a normal house and then there’s one room where just everything is shoved in and the door is shut behind it and never open that cuz it’s all going to fall on you if you open that door.
Korina Venn [31:58] Absolutely. Absolutely.
Darren Jamieson [32:01] I mean, good. So, I’m more normal than I thought.
Korina Venn [32:04] But some people have a drawer. A draw.
Darren Jamieson [32:07] How do you know?
Korina Venn [32:08] Just a drawer. A drawer.
Darren Jamieson [32:10] Amateurs.
Korina Venn [32:11] But yeah, amateurs.
Darren Jamieson [32:13] Oh, the man drawer. Like the man drawer where all the wires and the batteries go in and the the remote controls for things you don’t know what they’re for, but you can’t get rid of it in case you need it.
Korina Venn [32:21] Yeah, exactly. We don’t have one of those. It drives me insane.
Korina Venn [32:25] But we we do Everybody has a room, a space where it’s just a mess. uh whether be it’s a loft or a room, but you’re fortunate enough to have a three bedroom house and you can afford to have that room.
Korina Venn [32:40] And sometimes it’s okay because then the rest of the house is livable and comfortable and it’s okay. Why not?
Korina Venn [32:46] If you have the room, you’re actively doing something about it. You’re selling, you’re making money. I encourage people to sell if they’ve got the time and if they have the space.
Korina Venn [32:52] Because if I’m going in and you don’t have the space, then do you really have the luxury of sitting and selling because it takes a lot of time and effort.
Korina Venn [32:59] But if you do have the time, then sell.
Korina Venn [33:06] And then maybe work towards something like I had a client who had so many shoes and I and she bought a mannequin.
Korina Venn [33:12] It was she was brilliant actually. She bought a mannequin and she would take these beautiful photographs and she put it on vintage.
Korina Venn [33:17] And then I could see from going into the house that they love travelling, her and her husband. Absolutely loved it.
Korina Venn [33:23] So I said, “Well, here’s a jar for you and whatever cash you get, just put it in there and then you guys can go on holiday,” which is exactly what they did.
Korina Venn [33:29] So now all of a sudden, you’ve got an additional purpose to kind of encourage you to sell stuff just not just because you want your house to look good.
Korina Venn [33:36] Um, so after I helped her, I said, “Now you you you can do this on your own. You know, you’ve got the mannequin, sell it.”
Korina Venn [33:42] And she did and they went on holiday. I mean, I can’t remember where they went exactly, but doesn’t matter where they went.
Korina Venn [33:48] The fact is that they saved enough from stuff that they were never going to use again that was taking up space, stressing them out, and they got to go on holiday.
Korina Venn [34:03] I mean, how perfect is that, you know? So, I was very excited for her.
Darren Jamieson [34:09] Yeah, it’s good to have a good to have a goal that you’re selling it for.
Darren Jamieson [34:14] What one thing I You’re the person to ask this. As I say, I am a bit of a hoarder and I I do occasionally a room gets out of control and then I try and tidy it up again.
Darren Jamieson [34:20] Mess does depress me. Yeah, I have too much stuff.
Darren Jamieson [34:26] Why is clutter depressing?
Korina Venn [34:34] I think it’s a sense of not being in control. So, it’s the same as I mean, I don’t know how to explain it. So, for example,
Korina Venn [34:41] right, you develop websites or your company does.
Darren Jamieson [34:45] Yeah.
Korina Venn [34:46] Can you imagine going on to so you you want to hire somebody, but you you want to just feel comfortable that they know what they’re doing. So you go on to their website and it’s just cluttered and everything is all over the place and immediately you’re going to just say I’m not dealing with that person because obviously they’re just all over the place.
Korina Venn [34:59] I think it’s a reflection of of who we are as people, our surroundings.
Korina Venn [35:08] And when there’s too much stuff, there’s not enough us and there’s not enough control. So I think I think maybe the website an analogy is easy for you to understand because that’s what you do.
Darren Jamieson [35:20] You’re right actually because a a good a good efficient website has a lot of space, a lot of white space. If it’s got too too much clutter, you don’t know where to go. You don’t know what to do.
Darren Jamieson [35:33] But a perfect website is easy to know what to do. So everything’s there. It’s got just as many things maybe, but everything has its place and a logical place.
Darren Jamieson [35:39] So because a website has a function, the function is to get leads or to make sales for the business. It’s not to look nice. It’s not to look pretty. It’s not to tell a story. It’s to take inquiries or to take sales.
Darren Jamieson [35:51] Like Amazon is flawless. You go onto Amazon, you can buy something with a click of your thumb. You don’t need to input your card details. Just bang because it just works.
Darren Jamieson [36:03] It’s just that’s the best type of website. It’s got space. It’s fluid. It’s very easy to use. You don’t have to think how do I inquire about this product? How do I inquire about this service? It’s just oh yeah, there it is. Lovely, simple, nice and easy to use.
Darren Jamieson [36:14] Whereas a cluttered website, very difficult to use, very stressful for the person using it. Doesn’t work. Clunky and yeah, and it just doesn’t give you that feeling, you know.
Korina Venn [36:28] And I think sadly again and I mean I don’t want to sound all you know doom and gloom but we have too much and I think we lose focus of stuff that actually gives us happiness.
Korina Venn [36:47] And so again you get that dopamine you buy something it makes you happy but it doesn’t last. So you buy the next thing and it doesn’t last and you have to have the latest phone and it there’s nothing wrong with having stuff. There’s nothing wrong with spoiling yourself, but it’s just also keeping a balance between what you need, what you really need, and what you think you need.
Korina Venn [37:04] And also going on, I fall into that trap where I go in and I see this amazing advert and I’m like, “Oh my gosh, I really, really, really need it. It will change my life.” Will it really?
Korina Venn [37:17] Because I’ve had to tell myself, “Okay, just stop. Back away from the vehicle. Back away. Do something else. Come back to it.”
Korina Venn [37:28] you know, and um or leave it for two weeks. Did you really need it? Could you function without it? Do you really need it? Honestly, you know,
Korina Venn [37:35] I mean, it’s difficult cuz I have to I mean, cuz my other side of my brain says, “Oh, but you do really need it.” And I’m so convincing. I’m so convincing.
Korina Venn [37:48] And then I have to bring my other side to argue. I mean, it’s a perpetual dialogue that happens in everybody’s brain, you know, and it’s a and I think for me, my saving grace, I think naturally I’m just organised. It’s just something that I have.
Korina Venn [38:00] But the more time I spend with clients, the more I can see how negative it is to have all this stuff around you. It really doesn’t serve a purpose.
Korina Venn [38:09] And sometimes I’m ruthless. I’m a lot more ruthless than I than I used to be.
Korina Venn [38:16] My husband loves it because he’s even though he’s an artist, he’s a he’s also a priest. He’s a minimalist.
Darren Jamieson [38:23] So he’s an artist and a priest.
Korina Venn [38:25] Yes, he’s a priest.
Darren Jamieson [38:27] Wow.
Korina Venn [38:31] So we’ve downscaled. I mean, people with two kids hardly ever downscaled, but we downscaled.
Korina Venn [38:36] And I always tell ladies, the bigger the bag, the more rubbish you have in it. That’s just a fact, you know. And half the stuff you don’t need. It just becomes heavier and heavier and heavier.
Korina Venn [38:42] Um, but if you’ve got a smaller bag, all of a sudden you have to think a little bit more practically about what it is that you need.
Darren Jamieson [38:54] I love it. I I find that with my laptop bag, you know, laptop, charger cable, that’s it. It’s nice and light. It’s good to carry.
Darren Jamieson [39:01] And then over the course of a month, I’ll pick up a USB cable. I’ll pick up a HDMI cable. I’ll pick up 30 business cards from people. There’ll be a carrier bag. There’ll be some brochers, some leaflets. And it’s, why is this so heavy?
Darren Jamieson [39:08] And then I’ll open it and go, what’s all this crap? Why have I got all this in here? Back to just the laptop and the charger cable. That’s all I need. That’s nice and manageable again.
Darren Jamieson [39:14] But it just keeps reverting back.
Darren Jamieson [39:19] My car’s the same. Every now and then, I’ll just wipe everything out of my car and think that’s beautiful. Back seats are clear. Boot, cuz it’s a Land Cruiser. Boot is really clear. Wonderful.
Darren Jamieson [39:30] Right now, it’s full of crap again. There’s paint tins in there. There’s a there’s a portable heater in there for some reason. I don’t know why.
Korina Venn [39:42] Then you have to know why you have a portable heater in your car.
Darren Jamieson [39:47] I am I’m meant to be throwing it out because I used I used it for the house renovation. It’s covered in plaster dust and stuff. So I just want to bin it. But it’s still in my car. I’ve not binned it yet cuz I haven’t got to the skip.
Darren Jamieson [39:53] But this stuff just accumulates. It gets with us over time and then we get really stressed about it and then you throw it all out again and it’s like, “Oh, that’s much better. It’s much better.”
Darren Jamieson [40:05] And it’s strange how it affects your mentality. We talked about social media really. It’s the same. social media, there’s too much noise and it makes you depressed. It’s too much.
Darren Jamieson [40:10] I mean even trying to run a business, it’s too much. Sometimes I have to tell myself, okay, just go for a walk. It’s just too much, you know, and you’re multitasking all the time.
Korina Venn [40:24] But it’s very normal um to have whatever’s happening with your car, you know, and your laptop bag. That is normal because people will often expect um their house to be perfect and once they fix it, that is it. It doesn’t work that way, you know, because we all buy stuff and we all live and we all have we all have weeks where we so tired we don’t want to put our shoes where they belong, you know,
Korina Venn [40:44] and so you do have some sometimes when you got less energy than other times or some seasons that are a lot more busier like this season is just crazy, isn’t it? like Christmas and trying I mean I can’t believe it’s nearly Christmas. It’s just blowing my mind. But it is and you’ve got maybe other priorities and then it’s kids at the school and then they’ve got their nativity play. So it just gets all jumbled.
Korina Venn [41:10] And it’s okay as long as everything has a place that it lives because then instead of you going into your environment saying, “Oh my gosh, what a mess. It’s going to take me 4 hours, 4 days, 4 weeks.” It’s okay. I can do this in an hour
Korina Venn [41:15] because actually this cable lives here. It’s just like lost its way and everything goes back to where it’s supposed to be.
Korina Venn [41:34] But that that’s okay though if everything has a place.
Darren Jamieson [41:40] I’ve got so much stuff in my house. There’s things that don’t have a place. I don’t know where to put them.
Darren Jamieson [41:45] Is that at the point where somebody needs to think, right, actually I need to do something about this. I need help from somebody like you.
Korina Venn [41:50] I mean, I think so. And if you don’t have the time because it doesn’t mean that you can’t do anything that you can’t do this by yourself.
Korina Venn [41:57] But for example, and again I always use analogies um we are good at what we do for a reason and it’s okay to ask somebody else for help and get help for something that they do.
Korina Venn [42:04] Like I cannot do my own website, you know, I can’t make it link to my whatever. I don’t I don’t even know the jargon.
Korina Venn [42:10] So, I’m going to get somebody to help me with the website because why must I waste all that time and energy where I could be doing what I’m good at, right?
Korina Venn [42:15] So, for example, I know that if I go to gym and I train hard, I’m going to lose weight, but I’m lazy. So, why don’t I invest and pay a personal trainer not because I can’t do it myself, but I need the accountability just to get me in the right kind of frame so that I can maintain it as a lifestyle.
Korina Venn [42:35] So a a an organiser is not going to come in and fix everything for the rest of your life. But maybe you need that person for accountability.
Korina Venn [42:52] I mean some professional organisers I haven’t done a session a virtual session but some do it virtually because why that person just needs the accountability just need somebody to hold their hands. They’re very capable.
Korina Venn [43:05] All of my clients, most of my clients are very capable except for the ones who are physically can’t, you know, they’ve got mobility issues or whatever and they need me to physically carry stuff.
Korina Venn [43:12] So, yes, I do believe that if it stresses you out for a long period of time and if you’re not getting on top of it, maybe you just need a bit of help.
Korina Venn [43:18] The nice thing is that I part of an association called EPTO. I don’t know if you’ve heard of them.
Darren Jamieson [43:34] No, I’ve not. No.
Korina Venn [43:35] The professional organisation of declutterers and organisers. So you can actually go in there, put your your code, your post code, and it can actually pull up professional organisers around you.
Korina Venn [43:40] The nice I love being part of this crowd because they are we all work together. It’s a very lonely thing to work for yourself. As a founder of Tidy by KV, I don’t have colleagues and I’m so used to working at offices with with colleagues. I love people.
Korina Venn [44:05] But part being part of this organisation means that I have backup. I have support and if I go to a client and I don’t know how to help them with a certain thing I’ve never been uh I’ve never encountered before you know I just chat to them and we help each other.
Korina Venn [44:16] So there’s a lot of help out there. Uh if you have certain um neurodiversities there’s different people that excel at certain issues like hoarding disorders or whatever.
Korina Venn [44:23] I mean I don’t have a preference. I’ll help anybody who wants my help. Um I really don’t mind. But uh but it’s there’s an organisation. It’s crazy. I didn’t realise this until I started looking into it obviously.
Darren Jamieson [44:47] Yeah. How do you help someone decide though what stays and what goes?
Darren Jamieson [44:55] That’s the bit I’ve always struggled with.
Darren Jamieson [44:58] I I was sorting through some clothes the other day, for example, and I had a load of clothes that didn’t fit me anymore where I’ve always put them back in the in the bag or in the in the spare room and said, “Well, I’m going to get into those one day when I lose weight.”
Darren Jamieson [45:06] Let’s be honest, that’s not happened for about four years.
Darren Jamieson [45:12] But then I’ve thought actually I’m never going to wear them again anyway because I don’t like them. So I put them in a pile where I don’t want them.
Darren Jamieson [45:18] And then there’s a couple of shirts I’ve got that are really expensive, really nice, but they don’t fit.
Darren Jamieson [45:23] I think I don’t want to get rid of them because I might lose weight and get into those again. At what point should you be saying do you know what just do it? How do you make that call?
Korina Venn [45:30] I think it depends on the person again and I guide people. I don’t tell them you need to. But for me personally, if I don’t wear something for a year, then I really have to consider that it’s not something that I’m ever going to wear again.
Korina Venn [45:41] Now, for example, there’s certain things that go in and out of fashion. And if you really love those jeans, but they’re no longer in fashion, keep them because c fashion has a way of rotating and coming back again.
Korina Venn [45:46] If you’ve got something that you wear for like, I don’t know, special events like weddings or whatever, keep it, you know.
Korina Venn [45:52] And now we in a um we create our own fashion. So I I’m not I don’t follow anybody else’s fashion. I like to wear whatever it is that I like.
Korina Venn [46:00] Um but if something if you haVenn’t worn something for a year and you’re doubtful, just get rid of it.
Korina Venn [46:08] Those expensive shirts, if you think you’re going to fit into them again, they don’t take up a lot of space, you fold them nicely and you put them somewhere that you can see them often enough to try them on every now and again, but sell them on vintage if they’re not going to fit.
Korina Venn [46:18] The clothes that you know you don’t like, just give them away. just donate them, you know, just do it.
Korina Venn [46:24] Like maybe pick a day out of the month and say, “Right, today is the day, you know,” and give yourself a deadline like you do with everything else, you know, and I’m sure you mean you run a successful business, you you need deadlines.
Korina Venn [46:36] And if you don’t make those decisions, it’s just going to accumulate and then you’re not going to actually get anything done.
Korina Venn [46:41] So, and it’s just stuff unless you have some emotional connection to it, which makes it a little bit more difficult.
Korina Venn [46:49] It really is just stuff and the worst case scenario is that you might regret it. Is it really that bad?
Korina Venn [46:55] Unless it’s like a family heirloom and you know or you could have sold it or whatever, but it’s just stuff. If it’s expensive, think about it. Sell it. I’m not saying to donate everything, but also I think the pleasure of knowing that somebody else is getting some use out of it instead of it sitting in your wardrobe and just sitting there and then you don’t have space for new stuff.
Korina Venn [47:07] I’ I’ve heard someone say, and I can’t remember who it was, that you should hold an item and think, “Does this give me joy?”
Darren Jamieson [47:27] It’s Marie Condo.
Korina Venn [47:33] That’ll be it.
Darren Jamieson [47:35] Yeah. Try that with my husband.
Korina Venn [47:39] All you hold your husband and thought, “Does he give me joy?”
Darren Jamieson [47:45] No, no, don’t hold my Yeah, he gives me joy.
Korina Venn [47:46] So, I’m hold But he’s got so many books and I always tell him, Marie Condo says you must hold and it does not work with everyone.
Korina Venn [47:52] Also, Marie Condo is a perfectionist. I think she’s amazing. I actually went to a show in London. I think it was two weekends ago. It was Hall called Home Life and You and she was one of the celebrities there. She is phenomenal. She is amazing.
Korina Venn [48:13] But I don’t see her ways of doing stuff helping my clients. It’s very different.
Korina Venn [48:21] Uh But yeah, I guess if you’re not going to wear it, but if you if you hold your shirt and it makes you feel a certain way. I don’t know.
Korina Venn [48:27] My clothes don’t make me feel a certain way. They don’t I don’t feel that from clothes.
Darren Jamieson [48:33] No.
Korina Venn [48:39] Yeah. So, I suppose depends on what you treasure, you know, if you’re going to I don’t know. I don’t know.
Korina Venn [48:44] What I mean, what do you like? What are your hobbies?
Darren Jamieson [48:49] I’ve got Jesus wept. I’ve got a lot of collections of stuff like this.
Korina Venn [48:50] It’s okay. It’s a Transformers plastic dinosaur.
Darren Jamieson [48:56] Yeah.
Korina Venn [48:56] And how does it make you feel when you hold it?
Darren Jamieson [49:02] Oh, this one. Lovely. I like this one. Um Oh, there we go.
Darren Jamieson [49:08] But the problem was uh every time new stuff came out, I would buy it and I would keep it in the box, put it in on a shelf or put it in a cupboard and go, I’m going to open that next week or next month. I’m going to open it.
Darren Jamieson [49:19] And I had stuff for years and didn’t open it.
Darren Jamieson [49:26] And I sold one recently on eBay that was still in the box that I bought in 2007.
Darren Jamieson [49:32] Yeah. And I didn’t open it.
Darren Jamieson [49:37] Um I sold one that I bought for 30 quid, sold it for 180 quid on eBay because it was it went ridiculously up in value and you can only get it in the United States. So I don’t know how I got hold of it, but some of it goes for a lot of money. Some of it doesn’t.
Darren Jamieson [49:44] But I just ended up getting it because as you said earlier, I need that. I need that. I haVenn’t got it. I need it.
Darren Jamieson [49:49] and I’d go into a shop and say, “Oh, there’s a new one now. I haVenn’t got that. I need that.” But I didn’t want it and I didn’t open it.
Darren Jamieson [49:54] And I’ve got so many of them, which is why I started to get rid of them and just keep the ones I actually like.
Darren Jamieson [49:59] Just keep the ones I’m going to open or keep the smaller ones that take up less space and not the big ones that I’m never really going to display. I’ve got nowhere to put them. So, just get rid of it.
Darren Jamieson [50:05] And that that was the problem I was going through.
Korina Venn [50:10] I think I think I also read somewhere recently that that’s the difference between kind of stepping towards the hoarding and um and being a collector cuz a collector will have all the items and they will display them of pride.
Korina Venn [50:18] But if you’re just buying and putting stuff away then it then it’s not because you’re not investing in something that makes you happy.
Korina Venn [50:25] So then you have to look at why are you buying those things?
Korina Venn [50:31] You know what? What is it? What is it doing? Is it is it that instant gratification or is there a deeper rooted issue?
Korina Venn [50:39] Is it something that happened recently that you feel like you need to focus on something else?
Korina Venn [50:45] So, you know, these things take time to analyse and the best person to analyse them is yourself.
Korina Venn [50:52] But sometimes you just need help to kind of click and say, “Hang on a second. I don’t want this. I don’t need it anymore. It doesn’t serve a purpose. I want to get rid of it.”
Korina Venn [50:58] But at least you made money out of it, so that’s not a bad thing.
Darren Jamieson [51:05] Yeah. Yeah. Most of them I made money on. Some of them I made a lot of money on. There’s only a few that I lost a bit of money on, but I’m well up. Well up overall.
Darren Jamieson [51:11] Um but yeah, it is a case of just looking at what I’ve got and saying, do I need that? No, I don’t. Does it give me joy? No. Do I want it? Not really.
Darren Jamieson [51:17] So I it’s a very basic way of of looking at things the way Marie Condo does it.
Darren Jamieson [51:23] And I do think it’s nice because I think it gives you the power eVenn though you are getting rid of something.
Korina Venn [51:28] I think what she’s trying to say is you know it is something that you bought it for a reason.
Korina Venn [51:35] It’s got a value. Maybe monetary or maybe emotional.
Korina Venn [51:41] Maybe at that point of your life, whatever you were in university and that was the in thing and everybody had to have and and maybe you do hold it because by holding it, you you reconnect maybe with that relationship or the thought or the emotion and if it’s no longer there, it means you’ve outgrown it or you know it’s it doesn’t serve a purpose anymore.
Korina Venn [51:46] So, and and I think that’s where she’s coming from. So, it is very effective.
Darren Jamieson [52:08] Yeah. Because some things will be tied to memories, tied to experiences, and that will mean something to you.
Darren Jamieson [52:13] Like if you bought a t shirt at a particular concert, it might not fit you anymore, but every time you look at it, it reminds you of that concert. It reminds you of going there, that’s okay.
Darren Jamieson [52:19] But if you’ve got 50 t shirts you bought on sale because the BBC was doing an online store shutdown sale and they’re all Doctor Who, none of them fit you and you haven’t worn any of them and most of them still got the labels on.
Darren Jamieson [52:26] What’s the point?
Korina Venn [52:32] if give them away or reuse them, you know, cut them up, use them as rags,
Korina Venn [52:38] whatever it is that you want to do, clean your car with them.
Korina Venn [52:44] But yes, they let them have let them serve something.
Korina Venn [52:49] You know, I think it’s a waste.
Korina Venn [52:55] And I think if we are going to look at objects as as obviously they don’t have feelings but maybe something that somebody has created and they supposed to have a purpose and actually a very interesting there’s another priest a Ukrainian Orthodox priest actually that said to me
Korina Venn [53:04] but what is your purpose? Oh, sorry. I can’t do the accent properly. Do accent.
Darren Jamieson [53:10] Do accent.
Korina Venn [53:16] I’m like, h I said I don’t know. And actually, if we if we take time to think about what is our purpose.
Korina Venn [53:21] It seems so simple, but it’s not.
Korina Venn [53:28] You know, it really kind of opens up to all sorts of other, you know, interesting questions about who we are and where we’re coming from, where we came from.
Korina Venn [53:33] So, I think maybe that’s what Marie Condo was saying.
Korina Venn [53:40] You know, it had a purpose. Has it served its purpose? Does it need to go?
Korina Venn [53:46] So, that’s what I tend to do with my clients.
Korina Venn [53:52] And I’m going to say, okay, I’m not telling you. I never tell anybody throw it away. I can suggest and say personally I would give it away because and then I would tell them why.
Korina Venn [53:58] I said, but it’s yours. So, are you going to wear it again? You know, are you going to give it to your I don’t know your niece?
Korina Venn [54:04] If you’re going to give it to your niece, let’s get a bag. Let’s label it stuff for my niece cuz I love her.
Korina Venn [54:10] You know, if you’re going to give it to charity, let’s get a bag. and you know and then at the end of the session I make sure those bags get actioned.
Korina Venn [54:17] So if it’s for charity I will take them away because eVenn though it’s not essentially what I I started doing I thought I’m not going to take stuff for charity because I don’t charge for that and then it takes me forever and then charities can also be quite tricky sometimes.
Korina Venn [54:28] Um some can be picky on what they tell you. Oh my gosh, I didn’t realise it anyway.
Korina Venn [54:33] But I feel that if I leave it there, if they already have an issue of giving stuff away, a they’re going to might change their mind and while I’m gone, they might think, “Oh, let me just look at it again.” And then they it just lands up, you know, the whole 3 hour session’s been for nothing.
Korina Venn [54:41] And then when I take it away, it gives more space cuz now that bag is not there anymore.
Korina Venn [54:46] And by seeing more space, they feel like a load has been lifted off them.
Korina Venn [54:52] And then most of the time they’re excited about the next session cuz they can physically see something has changed, something has shifted and now they can sit on the couch and there’s that like whole pile of mess is not there anymore.
Korina Venn [54:57] So what I do is when I go into a client’s house, I’ll ask her or them where do you spend most of your time? Like where do you where’s your little place that you would want to relax?
Korina Venn [55:03] um should we start here first or what is stressing you out the most? Let’s tackle that first and that’s different for for for every client.
Darren Jamieson [55:40] Yeah.
Korina Venn [55:46] But I I’ve never had a negative experience. I’ve never had somebody that hasn’t been thankful and hasn’t had some kind of a positive impact going forward.
Korina Venn [55:52] Um,
Korina Venn [55:59] and then there’s some people that I tell them, I can’t help you more, and I think you need to speak to somebody because you you’re really struggling with certain things.
Korina Venn [56:04] And I think it’s your first step to the deeper reconnecting and discovering and helping yourself.
Korina Venn [56:09] So, a lot of them you might recommend to go see a therapist.
Darren Jamieson [56:17] But you’ve now established that relationship that they trust you enough to say, “Okay, I think I’m open to that.”
Darren Jamieson [56:23] Or, “I think you have a drinking problem, and I think you really need to go into
Korina Venn [56:30] How did you How did you know?
Darren Jamieson [56:34] How did you know?
Korina Venn [56:36] Oh, well, hypothetical. Well, we all have something. That would be funny, wouldn’t it?
Darren Jamieson [56:42] Well, you you’ve inspired me now to have another pass at the uh five bags I think I’ve got of clothes in that in that box room to go through those because I I gave a load of stuff to the Hospice of the Good Shepherd a couple of months ago. Uh I need to do more.
Darren Jamieson [56:52] Um Christmas is a good time to give them stuff, I think, because people will be going in there. So, I will do that again.
Darren Jamieson [56:58] And we are out of time now, believe it or not. So, I’m shocked. I actually said to my husband, how am I going to speak for an hour?
Korina Venn [57:03] It’s easy. It’s easy.
Darren Jamieson [57:08] So, for anyone listening to this thinking, “Oh my god, I need this woman’s help.” What is the best way for them to contact you?
Korina Venn [57:15] Well, I’ve got a website uh that’s got all my details there. Um and they could go on to the APO website as well and just put in their um their post code and that will give them all organisers wherever they are because I don’t I’m I’m based in the whirl and I do travel to um North Wales.
Korina Venn [57:39] I actually have a lot of clients in North Wales and I love driving to Wales except for the fines I get. Oh my gosh, they are so strict.
Darren Jamieson [57:44] Anyway, don’t talk to me about car fin. I can talk I can talk another hour about uh
Korina Venn [57:50] Yeah. So, so if they go on to my Tidy by KV website, all my information is there and I’m I’ll be more than happy even just to chat to them and see if that’s something that they that they’re interested in.
Darren Jamieson [58:03] Okay. Help them. I will put a link to both those websites you mentioned below the podcast in the description on YouTube and in the show notes on iTunes, Audible, Spotify and that.
Darren Jamieson [58:10] So, anybody listening to this, just scroll down. You can click on that and go straight away to the website to get in touch with Korina.
Darren Jamieson [58:16] Korina, thank you very much for being on the podcast. It’s been an absolute pleasure.
Korina Venn [58:24] It’s been a pleasure and good luck. It’d be nice to help.
