(01:20) Darren: On this episode of The Engaging Marketeer podcast, I am speaking with Hardeep Mann, who is a wellness coach and helps people with all manner of personal problems. His slogan is Progress, Not Perfection.
Don’t try to make huge changes that you cannot sustain. Make a little change each day at a time before you get to where you want to be.
I’ve got a lot in common with Hardeep. We’re both the same age, we both grew up watching the same TV shows, and we had similar upbringings, both being the youngest of four kids. So, let’s get in there with Hardeep with the difficult questions right from the off.
(01:59) Darren: So, Hardeep, one of the things I’ve seen you mention on your website is something I think is similar to my own experience. You described it as a volatile relationship with your dad.
(02:10) Hardeep: Oh, right—yeah, straight in there, Darren.
(02:12) Darren: I know! Let’s just go straight in there, mate. Let’s get under the hood and see what’s going on.
(02:16) Hardeep: I’ll take a sip of this lemon and ginger calming tea before we get into that.
(02:19) Darren: That’s obviously a bit of a motivation for you, it seems. Could you tell me a little bit about what that was like?
(02:31) Hardeep: There’s a precursor to this—I can’t say all of it because it isn’t all my story. There’s a shared story in there. I’m the youngest of four siblings.
(02:38) Darren: I’m the youngest of four as well!
(02:40) Hardeep: Oh, man. Yeah. I wonder if our friend Shaun is the youngest of four as well. He’s the connector. I don’t know if he is. Anyway, yeah, I think that’s a really valid thing to say.
Especially when someone asks or inquires—“Oh, I heard you talking about something.” And it’s deep. Some of it’s painful. Some of it hurts. But some of it isn’t just my pain, isn’t just my history—it’s my siblings’ and other people in our orbit.
So, I only really share about the things that I feel are mine to say.
(03:07) Darren: That makes sense.
(03:09) Hardeep: My dad was very, very traditional—a Sikh Punjabi guy. He was at that end of the spectrum that was considered quite stereotypical, the type you’d see on television dramas.
We weren’t allowed to go to the cinema or anything like that. If he was off work that day and we weren’t home within a stipulated amount of time, I’d get home and the accusations would come flying at me. He clearly had some kind of paranoia thing going on.
(04:19) Hardeep: And given that this was the ’80s and ’90s, and then past the ’90s into the 2000s, mental health was not really talked about. It was massively taboo. Then it started growing a bit, but he was never in a state where he felt he could ask for help. Some people were at that time in our community—growing up in C Tree, lots of Indian families, very ethnic area—we had elders who were starting to admit, “Oh yeah, I drink too much, I’m an alcoholic.” But that for him was never really an option. He never really got help with it.
(05:02) Hardeep: So, let’s talk about 1990. I was 15 years old and trying to become a man. Like anyone, I was trying to assert myself, balance individuality while also cooperating with others—being part of a group, fitting into group standards, but also doing things my own way. And that didn’t fit with my dad’s expectations.
It was met with manipulation, aggression—verbal and emotional aggression. Isolation within the home. Everyone else was okay, but I wasn’t. And all four of us got it in different degrees. But because of my personality, I verbalized my disagreements. I actively went against him. And the repercussions of that? More isolation, more bullying, more being made to feel like I was different, like an ‘other’ inside my own home.
(06:29) Hardeep: I didn’t want to be at school because that was horrible. I didn’t want to be at home because that was horrible. It was a very rough time, really. And the fact that I was acting out in response to that caused a lot of volatility.
(07:00) Hardeep: He would threaten me with two-by-fours. He would run in while I was studying and throw my books into the garden. And some of his language—it was quite sad, really. Some of the things he chose to say, some of the things he would say about me to cousins and relatives and people in the community—just plainly untrue.
I can laugh about it now because looking back, I realize he was ill. But it took me 30 years to understand that. I’m 48 now, and it took me from when I left home at 18 or 19 until just a few years ago to actually get to a place of compassion and understanding.
(07:39) Hardeep: I realized—I don’t know what he went through, coming to England in the ’60s and ’70s. The racism, the feeling of being othered, not being able to do what he wanted to do. And his background was horrible. He had a really sad upbringing himself. It doesn’t excuse what he did, but I understand it now. That understanding has given me a kind of peace I never thought I’d have.
But understanding doesn’t mean it didn’t hurt. There were years of struggle, confusion, and resentment. It took me decades to make sense of it all, to come to terms with my past and to stop being trapped by it. There was a lot of anger that I carried with me, which influenced so many aspects of my life—my relationships, my career, even my own sense of self-worth.
When I left home at 18, I thought I had escaped it. I thought physical distance would give me peace, but it didn’t. The weight of that relationship stayed with me. And for the longest time, I had this internal conflict—wanting to prove something to myself, but also to him, even though he wasn’t in my life the same way anymore.
I think many people who have difficult relationships with their parents experience this. You grow up in an environment that shapes you, even in ways you don’t realize at the time. It’s only when you start doing the internal work—through therapy, meditation, self-reflection—that you begin to unravel it all. And that’s what I had to do. That’s what changed everything for me.
(09:50) Darren: That’s really powerful, mate. It sounds like it’s been a long journey for you. I can understand feeling afraid from a young age – I was in the house from probably about the age of four or five and never really saw my dad. He was a figure of fear, mostly. He boxed in the Merchant Navy, so he was a big, strong guy. We did not get along at all. I was nothing like what he wanted from somebody, I think. Even though we were very similar, I wasn’t the serious person he expected. I wasn’t going to go out and get a part-time job doing a newspaper round or some sort of graft.
As it turned out, I had scoliosis, so my spine was twisted, which explained why I didn’t feel comfortable doing any sort of physical work. I didn’t know at the time, but that was the reason why. That sounds familiar. We did make up at the end, though. He actually said he was proud of me once, right at the very end. But throughout my life, he never said anything nice about anything I’d done. Even when I arrived home driving an Aston Martin, his reaction was just, “What the hell are you wasting your money on that crap for?” That was just the way he was.
One thing it’s done for me is it has made me very aware of how I am towards my own kids—to not do most of the things that he did. Have you had anything similar yourself in terms of how it shaped your behaviors?
(12:39) Hardeep: As soon as you mentioned kids, I started preparing an answer, but I’ll let that go for a moment. Because of my dad and what I experienced, I didn’t want to repeat his mistakes, so I never had kids of my own. That was a tricky thing. When he was passing away, showing all that vulnerability, I was actually in my late 30s or 40s and coming into an acceptance phase that I wasn’t going to have children.
I had done a lot of healing, and I started to realize, “Oh God, maybe I could have had kids.” But I had built up these notions in my mind that I shouldn’t because I’d end up like him, and they’d end up like me. Those were just fractured thoughts from a broken growth process. Through yoga and meditation, I found more harmony with it, but it’s still a journey—two steps forward, one back sometimes.
Then suddenly, I found myself in the position of taking time off work to care for him. And in my mind, he was the very person who had blocked me from crossing that bridge in my life. The emotions were overwhelming—imagine two whirlwinds clashing, one full of joy, healing, and positivity, and the other full of shadow and memory. I’m really glad I stopped drinking. If I hadn’t, I might have gone a completely different way.
(15:13) I was never the type to hide bottles, but alcohol was blocking my healing. It dulled my thoughts and feelings. Practices like yoga, meditation, and connecting with people who had similar experiences helped me. If I had continued spending weekends lost in euphoria, distracting myself, I wouldn’t have been able to move forward.
Eventually, I realized that drinking wasn’t camaraderie anymore. It was just filling time. I’d go out, chase temporary highs, then return to work on Monday feeling even less happy. That was my wake-up call.
(16:28) Darren: Do you come across a lot of people with similar relationships with alcohol?
(17:07) Hardeep: Yeah, I do. Some people manage it well, but there are others still relying on it heavily, even into their 50s. No judgment—I don’t know what they’ve been through. Like with road rage, you never know if the person who just cut you off is rushing home because of an emergency.
(18:28) Darren: And in terms of what you do now to help others, you emphasize the importance of not trying to be perfect. Where did that philosophy come from?
(19:15) Hardeep: It ties into how I was with my dad. I see the pressure in media—the unrealistic body images, the idealized visuals gamified for addiction. I work in NHS diabetes prevention coaching, and I’ve seen thousands of people affected by these messages.
(21:15) Many people try drastic changes to their health, but their bodies have spent decades developing a homeostasis. If you force sudden change, the body often pulls back. Sustainable progress is key—progress, not perfection. That applies to physical health, mental health, and even media consumption.
(26:42) I also tell people to be mindful of their media consumption. We’re constantly fed images of impossible ideals, and that impacts our mental health. If someone is trying to improve their fitness but keeps comparing themselves to unrealistic body shapes, it’s going to be a struggle.
(29:11) The key is to compare yourself to yourself. When we were growing up, our body image role models were Arnold Schwarzenegger and Sylvester Stallone—completely unrealistic for most people. You need to focus on improving from where you are, not on reaching an unattainable ideal.
(30:27) There’s a technique I recommend: if you can, find photos of your parents at your current age. It’s a small factor, but it can provide insight into your own physiology and genetic background. It helps to understand where you’re coming from instead of setting goals based solely on external influences.
(31:11) Physiological change isn’t just about mindset—it’s about realistic actions. Your physical body exists in linear time and space. Spiritually, you might feel infinite, but physical change happens step by step. That’s why you have to adjust, recalibrate, and be patient with yourself.
(32:00) Darren: So, what kind of people do you help, and how do they find you?
(32:05) Hardeep: Ah, we’re onto the marketing now!
(32:10) Darren: Yes, tell us about the marketing bits! So, you only formalized your business in April and started trying to do marketing in May?
(32:15) Hardeep: Yeah, that’s right. I started with LinkedIn, just posting. I wasn’t even sending messages. Just posting.
(33:00) Darren: So, were you getting traction from that? Were people engaging?
(33:10) Hardeep: At first, not really. I was getting nice feedback but no real leads. People would comment, “Oh, this looks interesting,” but then I wouldn’t hear from them again. It was frustrating.
(34:05) Darren: That’s common, isn’t it? People engage, but it’s more of a “this is nice” rather than a real business opportunity.
(34:15) Hardeep: Exactly. But I kept going. Then my partner, Kerry, suggested I try in-person networking. I resisted at first because I thought, “I don’t have any clients. What do I say to people?”
(35:00) Darren: So, how did you get over that hurdle?
(35:10) Hardeep: I just threw myself into it. I attended my first in-person event, and it was terrifying. But then I met this guy, Dave Ridley, and we bonded over a TV show from the ’80s. That small conversation led to an introduction that eventually turned into my first client.
(36:25) Darren: That’s amazing. So, networking was a real game-changer for you?
(36:35) Hardeep: Absolutely. The face-to-face interactions helped me overcome that imposter syndrome. Seeing people’s reactions in real-time was a confidence booster.
(38:50) Darren: And you mentioned before that you did a stand at the Halton Business Fair. How did that go?
(39:00) Hardeep: Really well! I had a flip chart and offered mini-sessions on meditation and stress relief. I booked out six out of seven slots, and one of the people who attended was the Mayor of Halton!
(41:30) Darren: That’s fantastic. So, your marketing approach has been more about direct engagement rather than digital strategies?
(41:45) Hardeep: Yeah, I still use digital marketing, but in-person events have given me the most traction.
(44:10) Darren: What about sales? Did you struggle with that aspect at first?
(44:25) Hardeep: Definitely. I had no formal sales training, and I was driving potential clients away without realizing it. Then, I had a conversation with Leon McKenzie, who changed my perspective. He told me to think of it as a mission—helping as many people as possible. That shifted my mindset.
(48:30) Darren: That’s a powerful way to look at it. So now, what’s your main strategy for getting clients?
(48:45) Hardeep: Networking, public speaking, and word-of-mouth. I’m also starting to offer workplace wellness programs for businesses.
(53:38) Darren: So, Hardeep, if someone’s listening to this thinking, “I love what this guy is saying, I’d love to learn more,” what’s the best way for somebody to get in contact with you?
(53:45) Hardeep: Yeah, so my website has a straightforward inquiry form. The URL is hmann.coach. You can also call me directly, and I offer free initial consultation calls via Google Meet.
(55:39) Darren: Hardeep, it’s been a pleasure speaking to you. I’m really grateful to Shaun for introducing us. We have so much in common—not just that we grew up at the same time and both like Magnum PI.
(55:50) Hardeep: Yeah, we’re both going to get stitched up if Nick is editing this! [Laughter]
(55:54) Darren: Hardeep, thank you for being a guest on the podcast.
(55:58) Hardeep: Cheers, Darren. I appreciate it.
