Darren (Host): So, sort of winding fans up a little bit, Evie Martinez-style—Aston Villa or Argentina goalkeeper?
Darren (Guest): 100%! If I was on a bigger stage, I would be up there with Martinez. I think I like the idea of being a showman. I like the entertainment side of that as well. I do.
Darren (Host): So, is it more showman than [bleep]-housery? Is that what you’re thinking?
Darren (Guest): Well, we’ll go showman. Showman, I think. But it could be either way. It depends. If your team’s winning, it looks good. If your team’s losing, you try your best to hold the game up. Then the fans are like, “Oh, now you’re running? Now you’re getting there?”
Darren (Host): Right, and you’re not lying on the ball for eight seconds anymore?
Darren (Guest): Exactly. Works either way. But if you’re winning, it’s better, though.
Darren (Host): On this episode of The Engaging Marketeer, I am interviewing Darren Jamieson. No, I’m not having a split personality crisis or going crazy. I am interviewing Darren Jamieson—the Stenhousemuir footballer playing in Scotland. Darren—this Darren, not me—is the bane of my life online.
Whenever I Google myself, which is frequently, I find him. I find him at number one in Google. I find him on the Knowledge Graph at the top of Google. I find him in the image searches. He’s a pain in the ass to me right now.
So, I’m going to be talking to him about his footballing career, about when he’s planning on retiring so I can get that number one slot once again, and about a new brand of football gloves that Darren is going to be launching with his name on them: DJ, Darren Jamieson. And I’ll see if I can get a pair for myself as well, because I love the idea of having gloves with my own name on them.
Darren (Host): This is going to be a little bit meta. Most people who are sports stars, musicians, celebrities dream of being footballers. Doesn’t matter who they are—biggest rock stars dream of being footballers. How early were you when you knew that’s what you wanted to do and that’s what you would actually end up becoming?
Darren (Guest): Oh, do you know what? There’s a very early story, and I remember it very—actually vaguely, to be honest. So, my mum and dad split up when I was roughly 11, and I remember my mum—she never told us at the time, but she was actually a little bit angry at my dad and his sort of side of the family at the time.
For a little bit of context, basically because they weren’t too sure that my mum would have been good enough to help me and my brother grow up, basically. So, my mum actually challenged us in the car that day at 11 years old and says, “What do you want to be, Darren, when you grow up?” And I instantly said, “Football.”
My brother, just for context, said he wanted to be a chef. To give her a wee bit of credit—actually, a lot of credit—because she’s been up and down the country, she’s done everything she could possibly do to make me believe that I would be a football player.
And, yeah, so from 11 years old, basically, it was ingrained in my mind, and it basically just came true. And it was all thanks to my mum asking me that question in the car that day.
Darren (Host): Wow, so she’s quite the inspiration in you getting to where you are then?
Darren (Guest): 100%. She’s done… I mean, obviously, you know what everybody’s mother—so everybody will say that their mother’s the best—but I firmly believe my mum’s up there. She’s been absolutely everywhere you could possibly go, anywhere that I’ve had to go.
Right from 11 all the way up to sort of 18. And then actually, even then, she paid for all my driving license. She said at the time, “I would much rather you can drive so that you can do all the traveling rather than I do the traveling,” which is a little bit sort of, like, selfish on her part. She didn’t want to do the traveling anymore, but she then obviously does everything in her power to get me to get a car so that I can then continue on the career that I had.
So I need to thank my mum straight off the bat.
Darren (Host): Oh, fantastic. Thank you very much to your mum then!
Darren (Guest): Yeah, 100%.
Darren (Host): Was there any point during your journey that you thought, “I’m not going to make it”?
Darren (Guest): Oh, loads. They always tell you when you’re in football, like in the changing room and stuff, that there’s a lot more lows than there is highs if you look at it like that.
So I joined Livingston at 16, and it was basically a takeover straight away. You’re not allowed to talk about them, so if any Livingston fans actually hear me say any Italians’ names, they wouldn’t like me, so I’m not going to say their names. But the Italian people—the owners—and so they all sort of came in.
What originally happened was I’d been in for a year, and my contract had basically been expired, and they offered me a six-month contract. So that’s at 17. Usually, you get kind of year contracts. I got until January to prove myself, and even at that point, I thought, “I’m a little bit young. I’m only getting a six-month contract. I feel like my time could possibly be up.”
And that’s as early as 17 I would have been then. Luckily, to be honest, they left pretty quickly, and as soon as they left, I think the new owners that came in were amazing with me. So I managed to obviously continue my professional career from there.
Darren (Host): And I imagine as well, because the vast majority of kids that grow up dreaming to be footballers and trying to be footballers—they don’t make it. You must have come through with a vast number of friends who were in the same position as you growing up at the academy, playing the junior games, but then didn’t end up making it as footballers. What sort of support is there for people where that happens—where their dreams are just taken away from them?
Darren (Guest): To be fair, I think it’s actually getting better, if I’m honest. The PFA—so obviously, they’ve got a PFA in England as well, but the PFA Scotland up here, they’re second to none, if I’m honest. I really like just the way they go about their business.
There’s so much helplines. The mental health’s obviously a massive side to it nowadays. The pressure that you put on yourself as a professional—a younger professional probably—you don’t realize it, but you put yourself under a lot more scrutiny as a younger person rather than an older person like me. I have a lot more experience now.
I have a lot more experience now—33 years old. I know that I’m near the end of my career rather than the middle or my prime, if that makes sense. I feel like now I’m sort of the one that’s passing on the knowledge to the younger ones. But if it’s not your teammates, the PFA are there to help. So I feel like it’s definitely getting better in that sense.
Darren (Host):
You mentioned coming to the end of your career because you’re 33, you say?
Darren (Guest):
Yeah, 33.
Darren (Host):
As an outfield player, you’d be very, very close to the end of your career. As a goalkeeper, you can go on quite a bit longer.
Darren (Guest):Everyone keeps saying that to me: “You’ve got 10 years left, don’t worry, you’ve got 10.” My body is telling me I’m maybe not giving up, but not giving it 10 years’ time. I’d like to take a year at a time, I think, if I’m honest. I love playing football. I absolutely love the other side of the game, which is the coaching, the mental side of the game, your man management, and stuff like that as well.
Being an experienced player, I didn’t realize how much your knowledge helps other players. And even if every so often—I would probably say I’m one of the louder ones in the current dressing room—but I feel like when I say something in the changing room, whether it be me just talking, people seem to listen.
Or whether it be me shouting, people also seem to sort of take in what I’ve said. Not necessarily like—no one needs to agree with what you’ve got to say. Everyone’s got a different opinion. But I definitely feel like as an experienced player now, people listen to you more, and they take more.
And it’s maybe because I’ve played a lot of games now for Stenhousemuir as well. So, I think that was my 250th appearance just recently—the last game against Stirling Albion. So, the fact that you can play so many games, I think I’ve missed two games out of the sort of run that I’ve had, also helps.
The fact that you’re playing every week, people start to listen and take on board what you’re saying. As long as it makes sense, of course. It needs to make sense as well, obviously.
Darren (Host):
Well, that’s an interesting point where you mentioned about playing every week. Of course, being a goalkeeper, if there’s usually three goalkeepers at least at a club, only one of them can play every week.
I’m a Liverpool supporter. Caoimhin Kelleher—I think I said that correctly—doesn’t play every week. He’s one of the best goalkeepers in the league, but he sits on the bench every week and watches Alisson play. Have you had that in your career, and what’s it like mentally watching someone else play, hoping that something happens or goes wrong so you can actually get a chance yourself?
Darren (Guest):
[Laughs] I’m not supposed to say that, am I?
Darren (Host):
Well, you’re not supposed to say that, but we’re friends here. You can tell me.
Darren (Guest):
I think that comes down to an experience thing as well. So when I was younger, I actually didn’t start playing in first teams until I was 23. So, up until 23, I never really—I never really saw myself playing, if I’m being 100% honest.
I was on the bench a lot. I used to have a joke—me and one of my best friends still, outside of football, Cord Dice is his name, just a name-drop for him—we used to have the best record for “subs not used.” Every time you see it in the paper, it was always the Livingston score, and underneath, “Subs not used: Jamieson, Cord Dice.”
Every week, for—it must have been a good two, two-and-a-half seasons. It was a long time. And at that point, there’s not a lot of pressure on you. You don’t feel like you’re ever going to really play. I mean, obviously, as a goalkeeper, definitely not going to play unless the goalie in goal gets injured, gets suspended, or something obviously needs to happen to him.
And at the end of the sort of third season of me being on the bench, it was actually the first-team goalkeeper, Andy McNeil, that says to me, “I’m not getting a renewed contract, and they’re going to go with you next year.” And that was—so the six weeks in the summer were pretty intense for me.
I was like, I don’t know—I don’t know how to deal with this. I’ve never been in this position before, so I’m not entirely sure what I’m supposed to do. And the whole summer, I thought, “I need to get really fit,” so I’m running and running and running, thinking that’s going to help.
And then, I don’t know, I feel like now, experience definitely tells, but back then, when you’re not entirely sure how to play the game—you go from playing youth football to first-team football—it’s completely different.
It’s completely different, and the only way that you can really get better is just through experience. So, in my first season, I think I played four or five games, and then I actually got dropped.
Darren (Host):
And what was the reason you were dropped?
Darren (Guest):
Very inconsistent, to be honest. So my first six games, I was probably, like—good, good in one; steady in another one; rubbish in the next one; and then maybe good again, steady again, then rubbish.
By the time we got to the sixth game, I think it was at the point where it’s like, “Right, we need you to be more consistent, but we’re going to take you out the firing line and see what you’re like.”
I tried my best to respond well, but I think it’s hard when you—as a goalkeeper, you feel like you’re in the position, and then when you lose the position, you’re like, “I’m never getting back in,” basically.
So, how I responded well to it, and the only way—I feel like, like I said, I feel I got lucky because the manager actually ended up resigning. And when the new manager came in, he basically wanted to pick me, and that’s where it basically started.
Darren (Host):
Yeah, because as a striker, if you get dropped, you’re going to get a chance to come on for 10, 15 minutes to actually take a chance. But as a goalkeeper, there’s nothing you can do but just sit there and watch.
Darren (Guest):
Hope they make mistakes.
Darren (Host):
Yeah, or injure themselves or get sent off.
Darren (Guest):
Yeah, exactly.
Darren (Host):
But you’re not meant to think that.
Darren (Guest):
Definitely not, no.
Darren (Host):
So, when you are playing, then, as a goalkeeper—I’ve done it at school level. I didn’t do it any higher than that because there was somebody a lot better than me at my school. How do you maintain that concentration during the game? Because you can go huge periods where you’re not involved in the slightest, and then if you’re not on it, one mistake and it’s all over.
Darren (Guest):
Again, I think it’s an experience thing. I think it helps when you’re much more experienced. I’m now in the position where I would like to show highlights. If I had highlights of just my game—obviously the camera moves is what I mean—but if you’re just watching me the whole entire time, I just love directing traffic, basically.
People in front of me can all just be standing about, and I’ll make sure that if they’re a yard too far to the left, I want him in. If he’s a yard too far to the right and he should be in, he’s in. If he should be out, he’s out.
I’m just constant. I come off games after games now, and I’ve got a sore throat because I’ve just been constant the whole game. When I was a little bit younger—my mum tells a good story, actually—that I used to be the quietest goalkeeper in the world. Never used to speak to anyone.
I didn’t even really think that communication really mattered all that much, and I kind of took that into my first six games. Quite shy. Not shy—I’m not a shy person—but quite just… I just concentrated on my game. I didn’t worry about anyone else’s game. If I play well, fine.
And it’s not—it’s not a way to go. No, as a goalkeeper anyway. Now, I see I feel like I can make people’s game better. Maybe, like I said, as experience goes, as you get more and more experienced, a little bit older, a little bit wiser, you can start telling people, “This is what I think you should be doing in the game.”
And if they take it on board and it works, fine. If they take it on board and it doesn’t work, well, they’ll never just—just never listen to you again.
Darren (Host):
There’s quite a few things you’ve said now, on different answers, which talk about how you’re being vocal with other players, they’re listening to you, they’re respecting you, and even the way you talked to the new manager convinced him to put you back in again.
It sounds like you’re good at conveying messages, instructions to players, and conveying tactics as well. Is it fair to say that coaching is something you’d be looking at getting into in the very near future?
Darren (Guest):
Oh, very much so. I would probably say up until maybe 27—so I left Livingston, went to Hamilton at 27—I wasn’t actually playing at 27. For the first time, when I came out of Hamilton, I went from full-time football—so obviously training every day, being your full-time job—and actually changed it into part-time.
When you go part-time, you’re only training a couple of nights a week, and you hardly ever see the boys. You’re not in the changing room as much. You don’t see the boys as much, etc., etc.
When it got to that point, I feel like when you come away from football now and you’ve got a full-time job on top of that, I feel like I’m now constantly thinking about football. So, the part-time side, that is now what makes me want to coach, makes me want to manage.
I feel like I’d maybe be an assistant manager. I know that that’s not—basically, you don’t go into coaching and say, “I want to be an assistant manager,” because that’s—you effectively want to be an assistant manager to then bounce up to manager, which makes sense.
I feel like I’d be a really good assistant manager because I’d love to coach the team, but I’d also like to have a say in the team, but potentially have someone else there that can oversee what I’m doing. So, I would very much like to be involved in it.
Darren (Host):
If you go into management, are you going to then maybe have to delegate other things to, like—so, I would say to my assistant manager or my coaches, “You take the training. I’ll stand and watch.”
Darren (Guest):
I don’t know if I want to do that yet. I’d love to be right involved in it. “This is the way that we want to play, and I’m telling you exactly what to be,” exactly the same as what I’m doing right now when I’m being a goalkeeper.
Darren (Host):
If we were to talk tactics ever so quickly, then, one thing I’ve got to ask you from your perspective—what were your views on Scotland’s performance at the last Euros?
Darren (Guest):
I can look at—I look at the three games differently. All three of the games I can look at differently for me.
The first game—I mean, Germany. Germany are world-class. They’ve always been world-class ever since I’ve been born. And it’s a game, in my eyes, where you want to try and impress as best as you can, but you also want to try and stifle them a little bit.
Make it hard for them. If you make it hard for them, maybe the crowd gets on their back. That’s when you then see the tide turn a little bit, and you maybe have a go at them. I think we maybe gave goals away just a little bit too early and a little bit too cheaply.
Because of that, we looked a little bit overawed. I’ve never been—I would like to just add as a little bit of a disclaimer—I’ve never been anywhere near the standard of the Scotland team. These guys are absolutely amazing. I’ve trained with a few of them. I’ve played with a few of them, and I know the standard that these guys are at.
Just for my opinion, I would have just—I thought we just looked a wee bit—it just looked a wee bit… we played within ourselves a little bit. And then that put us on the back foot for the second game.
You look at the Switzerland game—don’t get me wrong, the goal that Shaqiri scores is outstanding. But again, we kind of looked like we just wanted to be a wee bit defensive. “Defensive” is harsh. We looked like we just wanted to sit in a little bit and just play it right—a draw is fine.
We’ll take it into the Hungary game. And then I think the Hungary game was basically—Hungary didn’t want to get beat, and neither did we. And it ends up being a rubbish game, and it was exactly what it was.
I think we probably could have had a go. The way you want to look at these three games is, at some point, have a go. Me personally, that’s what I would have said—at some point, have a go. If we get beat, we get beat.
What we actually have done is we’ve not really had a go, and we’ve tried to just survive and qualify as through the skin of our teeth. And we’ve actually ended up getting beat in the Hungary game anyway. I’d have had a wee go in the Hungary game if I was personally in charge.
Darren (Host):
It looked a clear penalty to Scotland anyway. I don’t know how that wasn’t given.
Darren (Guest):
Definitely was a pen.
Darren (Host):
Speaking of penalties, as I know—I’ve played in goal—it’s one of the most exciting things for a goalkeeper to do. What’s your view on penalties? How much do you look forward to it, and what tactics do you give away? Obviously, you’re not going to tell us, just in case there are any strikers listening.
Darren (Guest):[Laughs] That’s so—my Livingston days, that was one of my nicknames. So, obviously, my nickname right now is DJ. Everybody knows me as DJ. It’s just been my initials; it’s just been my nickname right from primary school all the way up. And it’s stuck.
I love it because—I don’t know—I feel weird when people call me Darren sometimes. I feel like I’m maybe going to get in trouble. One of those ones, you know what I mean?
Darren (Host):
Yeah.
Darren (Guest):
Yeah, so the only one—my fiancée calls me D, and that’s fine. I can understand that. My gran calls me Dazzy Bear. And that—I love that. That’s just the way it is. That’s what my gran does. I’m not going to argue with my gran.
Darren (Host):
You’ve never had “Dazzy Bear” for the record?
Darren (Guest):
Well, you can get it now.
Darren (Host):
I might get it now.
Darren (Guest):
Yeah, you’re getting it now. And then other than that, everyone else calls me DJ, so that’s been great. But when I was at Livingston, I was a bit of a penalty king.
With regards to sort of having the record for the most penalty saves in a season, I think it was five—five out of the seven we had. So, it’s a good record. And it was important penalties as well because one took us through to the final of the Challenge Cup, which we ended up winning.
So that was good as well. And ever since then, every penalty that I see now, I just try and enjoy it, to be honest, because I know that if it goes in the net, it’s not my fault. If I save it, I look like a hero.
So, there’s no pressure on penalties. With regards to the way that I decide penalties, I actually look at the way that they stand, and I just say to myself, “If I was in that position, what way would you go?” And that’s what we do. Literally, that’s it—simple as that.
Darren (Host):
And you don’t change your mind during the run-up? You’ve picked your side, and you go?
Darren (Guest):
Very rarely change my mind, because I think—I just try to think how I would take the penalty. It’s all about the angles and stuff like that. It’s maybe a wee bit too complicated to explain.
But I just see if they’re standing slightly to the right. I think, “What—where would I put this penalty?” If I feel like I’d put the penalty to the left, I’d go left. And my record speaks for itself, I think, to be honest.
Darren (Host):
Yeah, that’s true. How would you deal with penalty master-takers like Ivan Toney, for example, who just stares at the goalkeeper the whole time, doesn’t even look at the ball, and waits for you to move?
Darren (Guest):
I mean, realistically, no one’s actually managed to save his penalties, so I don’t really know, to be honest. You need to just try and—you need to try and be very special to beat the way that Ivan Toney does it.
It is very unorthodox, is probably a good word, but it’s special at the same time.
Darren (Host):
Yeah, I noticed the one in the Euros. He doesn’t even look at the ball.
Darren (Guest):
No, he doesn’t. The way he walks up to it—eventually, at some point, the goalkeeper has to move. So you need to go somewhere, do you know what I mean? Unless you plan on standing in the middle.
And the only thing you would try and do is just beat them on lateness. So the later I move, the harder it is for him to predict where I’m going to go.
Darren (Host):
And presumably, the closer he gets to the ball as well, the less power he can actually hit it with.
Darren (Guest):
True. The goal—so when you look at the goal from the penalty spot, it looks tiny. When you’re standing in the goal, the goal looks really, really big.
So from that point of view, I always think if you put the ball in the corner with enough pace, it does beat the goalkeeper. But it does need to be—it doesn’t need to be extremely accurate, but it does need to be accurate as well.
The way that he takes his penalties is impressive. Very impressive, actually.
Darren (Host):
So you’re just glad you’ve not faced him then.
Darren (Guest):
Very much.
Darren (Host):
Did you see, after he did that, he put loads of social media posts out with him doing other actions in everyday life without looking? So he was reading a book without looking at the book. He was playing darts without looking at the dartboard.
I’m just wondering—some players use social media a lot to promote their brand. You’re on Twitter—or X—but you’ve got a locked account. It’s private. Is there a reason you’ve done that? What’s your thinking behind having a private account?
Darren (Guest):
I just wanted to keep my life private, if I’m honest. But the big thing for me is, usually if people follow me, I accept it. Wouldn’t they say I don’t? I don’t follow a lot of people back with regards to that.
But I’ve never been massive on social media, if I’m honest. A lot of the time, it’s like you maybe put up a couple of pictures of the wee man. I’ve got a little girl as well, so the same—just kind of family photos and stuff like that that go up.
So it’s not an awful lot about football or my life really in general that I want to put online. I’d rather keep that sort of side of things private. And I think when you first start your account, it asks you if you want to be private, and they’ve just been private ever since.
Darren (Host):
What are your thoughts on footballers who take a lot of abuse via social media? Fans—or supposed fans, not real fans perhaps—that abuse players, even their own team, via social media?
Darren (Guest):No, it’s just—it’s shocking. It’s really, really bad to see.
The big thing for me—I’ve said it quite a lot, and it’s quite a strong opinion on the matter—is when people say, “We pay our money, we can shout what we want.” And in my opinion, if you’re going to shout at your own team, I would rather give you your money back, and you can go sit in the pub. Do you know what I mean? Like, there’s no need for it.
When it’s banter, when it’s playful, when it’s funny, fine. I don’t mind. When it gets a little bit too far, that’s when I think people need to step in.
The racist part of it is dreadful, and that should never, ever, ever happen. I get the—I didn’t get my skin color, but obviously, I’ve got a little bit of ginger in my beard and whatever, so you get the odd ginger shouts, you get the odd fat shouts, you get…
If I take that in my stride, I like to give a little bit back sometimes, though. I try my best not to make it a serious assault or—what’s the word? I don’t try to be mean when I’m shouting back, but I do like the idea of the sort of little bit of confrontation between the player and the fan, for it to be funny.
And then you high-five at the end of the game, and then you walk away. That’s totally fine. I’ve been in some places where it’s been really bad, and I’ve been in some places where I thought, this was really good, and I would be able to say I actually loved it as well.
Darren (Host):
So you’ve been able to play in some places where you felt it was just good-natured banter?
Darren (Guest):
Yeah, definitely. So I played—I’m actually a Hibs fan. A lot of my family are from that side of Edinburgh, which is sort of down Leith, New Haven, my mum’s side.
And I went to Hearts, which was Tynecastle, when I was at Livingston. And it was the best—for, I’d say, 90 minutes, actually—the best 90 minutes I’ve ever played football-wise because the fans behind the goal, for whatever reason, knew that I supported Hibs.
So it was funny because it was all, “You’re Hibs this, you’re Hibs that.” And then, at the end of the game, we played well. They clapped me and said, “Well done, good sport,” and I walked off the pitch. When I sat down in the changing room after the game, I was like, “Do you know what? I’d play that every week. That was good.”
Darren (Host):
But hiding behind the accounts and stuff like that, you always see it’s a fan page that will message an England player or something like that and try to be racist and stuff. That needs to stop.
Darren (Guest):
Yeah, I mean, beyond belief as to why you would want to do that in the first place. Whether it be young kids or adults, whatever, there’s no need for it. I think you have the passion for 90 minutes. You can talk about it in the pub after the game—that’s why football is such a special sport. But it doesn’t need to lead to personal attacks in any way, shape, or form.
Darren (Host):
Do you think football as a whole is doing enough to get racism and attacks such as this out of the game?
Darren (Guest):
I don’t think you can ever do enough. I don’t think we can ever stop until it’s completely eradicated.
And I also feel like a lot of the people, a lot of the time, say, “Footballers are on loads of money; footballers should just accept the abuse,” and stuff like that. It’s never nice to hear. Doesn’t matter how much money you’re on—it’s still a human being at the end of the day that’s behind all that.
They can read it; they will read it. Even if they say they don’t read it, they probably will. And the fact that they can’t have a normal social life like anybody else—like you and me, like my next-door neighbor—anybody else can go on social media, and they don’t get personally attacked.
I don’t understand why they feel like it’s okay for footballers to be attacked.
Darren (Host):
Yeah, no, I see that. As you’ve mentioned, seeing stuff online—because, obviously, footballers do search themselves, they do find out what people are saying about them. Have you spent much time Googling yourself?
Darren (Guest): Oh, you come up! Thanks, brilliant. [Laughs]
I’ll be honest. I used to do it a lot when I was younger. Yeah, so, obviously, I would Google—I would Google, obviously, just the name, just “Darren Jamieson,” as long as that comes up. But then a lot of the time, when I was younger, it was pictures of yourself.
Me! And at that point, when you were younger, you’re making me feel old now. Maybe we’ll go 10, 12 years ago.
Darren (Host):
Alright, that’s not too bad.
Darren (Guest):
I would always see pictures of yourself rather than me, so I’d think, “I need to get more pictures on here just to get rid of you!” You need to go do your bit so that I can be up here.
Host:Darren (Host): That was my plan.
Darren (Guest):
[Laughs] And I feel like it worked. There are loads of pictures of me now.
Host:Darren (Host): I feel like that’s the inspiration behind your career—when you’re retiring again, to try and get better?
Darren (Guest):
I mean, you always need something to motivate you, don’t you?
Darren (Host):
Yeah, it could be something small at all.
Darren (Guest):
Yeah, because we mentioned before we started recording this, there’s a Knowledge Graph at the top of Google for people’s names, and you’ve got it for “Darren Jamieson,” and it’s very irritating. It pulls out all fixtures and results as well.
And then I’m, like, the second result, and I think you’ve got to go three or four pages in before you find somebody that isn’t one of us. But there we go.
Darren (Host):
That’s it, then.
Darren (Guest):
Yeah, exactly. Between us, we’ve got it sewn up. Any other Darren Jamieson, you guys are in trouble.
Darren (Host):
Serious trouble.
Darren (Guest):Serious. Serious threat now. They need to work harder than us, and they’re not doing that.
Darren (Host):
You mentioned your kids earlier. One thing that—because I mentioned I asked our guy John, who is well into all types of football, for a question, and he took a look at your league and realized that some of the teams are right up in the Highlands that you have to go to.
So that’s quite a travel for you to go. You can’t just fly out to these locations, I presume. How does that affect your personal life?
Darren (Guest):
It becomes part and parcel, I’ll be honest. It’s the Saturday, so we normally—if we’re up north this year, we’ve got Cove Rangers, which is just beyond Aberdeen. But you’re talking a good three, three and a half hours anyway.
And it just sort of means—obviously, so my youngest is one; he’s only just turned one last Monday. So he’s probably in his bed by the time I get back for the Saturday night. But I do always see them, obviously, all day on the Sunday.
Monday to Friday, my little girl’s six, just going on seven. And it’s just like I sort of see her once a week every weekend—just make sure that I always visit, always want to see her. And I just try and sort of reverse however—so one weekend, I’ll see her on a Friday night before the game on the Saturday.
And then the following weekend, I’ll see her the Saturday night and then onto the Sunday, and I drop her off again on the Sunday night. So, if I’m going away for long trips or whatever, it’s nice if my mum gets—obviously gets to see my little girl as well.
Other than that, I just try my best to accommodate as much as I possibly can. So I either try and swap the weekends so I get her on the Friday or the Saturday. Or, if we can, obviously, if my mum takes my little girl over—actually, she takes her tomorrow. So, she takes her tomorrow because our game is on the TV. It starts at half-past five tomorrow night. I normally pick her up at half-past six, so obviously, I won’t be available for that.
But on the Sunday, we’re going to all go to my mum’s. We’ll have a nice lunch at my mum’s and whatever and get to see sort of everyone all at once, and then I’ll take her home again tomorrow night.
So, I do think it impacts—that is a little bit frustrating at times, but at the same time, we just try to make it work.
Darren (Host):
What’s your thought, then, on the current controversy going around about football, where certain players—mainly at Manchester City—have been complaining that players are playing too many games? And someone is advocating that players could at some point actually go on strike because of the number of games they’re playing.
Where do you stand on that?
Darren (Guest):
Me personally? I would probably say I love playing games. I’d much rather play games than train. But from the highest of the highest standards—like the players… obviously, we don’t get to name names for the ones that have complained—but they’re going to—they have to play consistently every single week, every single game, at the highest they can possibly play.
Or they face criticism. They face potentially being released. They face potentially having mental health problems because of it. I can understand where they’re coming from.
It’s not necessarily an enjoyable experience unless you’re winning every single week. These Manchester City players will be under immense pressure, which I could only imagine is hard, basically.
Now, again, this is the UNO card of that—the reverse of that—is everyone says, “Well, they get paid enough money; they should deal with it.” Yes, but it still is pretty hard to be that consistent all the time.
So, I can understand where they’re coming from because they are playing up to sort of 70 games in a season. It’s a lot. It’s a lot of games. But I think I would try my best to accommodate the games and just try and enjoy the games a little bit more.
As far as the pressure—I’ve probably never had that much pressure on me to perform every single week. But I can imagine it does take its toll by the end of the season.
Darren (Host):
So, even if you were at that high level, you wouldn’t be thinking that striking would be an option?
Darren (Guest):
No, not me personally. Right now, me personally, no. I don’t think I would want to strike. I’d rather play games.
The criticism that you would obviously entail for that—I mean, if I underperform for two or three games, the pressure immensely increases. So, you want to try and play well every single week.
And the more games you play, the more you have to prove yourself. That’s where I feel like the mental health side of it comes in—the mental pressures and stuff.
It’s not necessarily the physical pressure. These guys are 6’3″, they’re all absolute athletes. They could run for days. And if there was no pressure on them to run or play football, then I’m sure they would be absolutely fine to play more games in a season.
But I think the pressure that you’ve got is what makes them say what they’re saying—to be so consistent all the time.
Darren (Host):
While you mention the standard of football, one of the questions that our football correspondent, John Murray, has thrown up at me is about the standard of football in Scotland and the fact that you’ve got Celtic and Rangers who are on a different level to everybody else, and then you’ve got the rest.
Can you see a way that Scottish football could close the gap, build up more strength in depth? And one of the things that John has suggested is to do something more like the English leagues, rather than have the small leagues of 10 and 12 that you’ve got now—break it into two leagues of 20. Just wondering what your thoughts were on that?
Darren (Guest):
That is—that’s my exact thought, to be honest.
So, I’ve had a… I don’t know if you can say it’s constructive, but the talks that I would—or the way that I would be able to explain it—I feel like every sort of… every league, every top-five league excluding England, has got two leagues.
So, Spain—Spain’s got La Liga, and then they’ve got the B. Serie A in Italy, and then it does go B, C, D, I understand that. But the main two leagues are just one and two.
Spain’s just one and two. If you look at the German Bundesliga, which—you wouldn’t really clash the league underneath—they’ve only got one and two again as well.
So for Scotland, I feel like if we had… it would be—there’s 42 [teams], so you’d probably want 20 and maybe the bottom league to be 22. But that wouldn’t be a problem. Maybe two or three more games that we would need to fit in. I don’t feel like that would be an issue at all.
Darren (Guest):
And I think if you then do that, you would then have a sort of cluster of teams that are more middling teams. What would actually happen then is they would look to bring through youth because they wouldn’t be under so much pressure in case they got relegated.
That would then, I think, in 4–5 years’ time—or something like that—help the Scotland national team as well.
For it to close the gap on Celtic and Rangers, I’m not 100% sure it would close the gap, but Celtic and Rangers would have to perform against the smaller teams week in, week out, instead of playing against themselves.
So, when Celtic play Rangers every week, that is what everybody looks forward to. If they only played each other twice in the season, they would have to look at each other’s results.
It would put more pressure on them because, like, Celtic need to win 2–0 against this team today; Rangers could potentially leapfrog them by beating them 3–1 today. So, it puts a little bit more pressure on them, and I think it makes it slightly harder.
Because there’s pressure again—like I say, pressure is what the bigger teams deal with very well. The smaller teams, not so much. But I feel like two leagues would be much better.
Darren (Host):
And what stops that from happening?
Darren (Guest):
I actually don’t know, to be honest. If I was to pick something—it’s being slightly biased because I’m a Hibs fan, so I’m not too concerned with Celtic or Rangers—but I feel like because your TV packages are… Celtic and Rangers must play each other four times in a season.
Actually, every league does the same. We are about to play Elgin on Saturday as a good example. We’ve already played them, so we now know exactly how Elgin will play. We’re going to play them again for a second time, and we’ve then got two more times to play them in the same season.
If you then catch them in one of the cups—so we’ve got the Scottish Cup, you’ve got the League Cup, and you’ve got the Challenge Cup—so, potentially, in one season, you could play the same team seven times.
And for a fan—me personally—I would look at that and say, there’s no, like… we’re not looking at diversity. We’re not looking and saying, “Oh, we’ve got different teams to play this week. Oh, we can go and travel somewhere else.”
Fans like that probably a lot more than players do, but you get a little bit of a drink, you get to go up to a different stadium, you get to experience it from a different side. Things like that, I think, would help Scottish football much more than what it does just now.
I wouldn’t say it accommodates Celtic and Rangers. I would just say that they don’t want to change it because they’re unsure how the impact would be if Celtic and Rangers don’t play each other as much.
Darren (Host): I think it loses its specialness if you’re playing your rivals four times a season. I mean, Merseyside Derby is the one for me. I have one home game against Everton, which I go to, and that’s the opportunity to tell them that they’re blue and white shits.
Darren (Guest):
[Laughs]
Darren (Host):
That’s what it is, that’s what it’s for. You don’t need that four times a season. It’s just not necessary.
Darren (Guest):
The rivalry is good as well, though. I agree with that as well, because then that means you’ve got bragging rights for six months until the next one comes along.
Darren (Host):
Exactly, yeah. So if you win three and lose one, you don’t really have the bragging rights. Doesn’t make sense.
You mentioned stadiums there. A quick question that John, our football correspondent, has also asked is: What’s the best stadium you’ve played in, and what’s your favorite one that you played in?
Darren (Guest):
The best one, I’d probably have to say Celtic Park is the best one. It’s just—when you’re standing on the pitch, it’s a massive stadium. I only played there in a youth game.
We played against Celtic in the semifinals of the Youth Cup, and so the stadium holds 60-odd thousand, whatever their capacity is. And there were only 20—I’ll say it only—there were only 20,000 fans in the stadium that day.
And it was the best atmosphere that you could imagine for a Youth Cup game at 16 years old, 17 years old, whatever age I was at that point, playing in the game. It felt amazing. It felt special. And the fans—the majority of the fans—were there to see the other team.
So, as far as best stadium, Celtic Park. Definitely enjoyed Celtic Park.
When it comes to the favorite, but it’s controversial because it’s my team’s rivals—but playing at Tynecastle was amazing for me. I absolutely loved it. They’re so close to the pitch. They’re so tight to the pitch.
You take a goal kick, and someone can—if they decided to slap you in the back of the head, they could. I’m not saying they did. They definitely did not. But I’m saying if they wanted to, they could have.
And that’s how close they are to the pitch. And it’s pretty intimidating, but if you like the pressure—and I enjoyed the pressure at that point, I think, because we were getting beat 4–0—I was enjoying the pressure.
Every single minute of that game, I really enjoyed.
Darren (Host):
It’s unusual that a goalkeeper would like a crowd so close to them.
Darren (Guest):
I do. Every week. Anybody that’s been to one of the games I’ve been at—so we had, when I was at Kelty Hearts just before I joined Stenhousemuir, the pitch… I mean, it’s probably three steps to the edge of where the fans are.
So that’s how close they are to the edge, and they’re literally screaming at you from five yards away. And I’m always the one that’s like, “See, relax. It’s just a game of football. Calm down. It’s alright. You’re winning. It’s alright.”
And it just winds them up. But I try it in a playful way. I never want to try—I don’t mean to undermine anyone or anything like that. I try my best not to. Personal attacks never happen from me.
I just like the engagement between the two. Yeah, a lot of the time they’ll tell you, because you’re slowing the game down or something like that, “Hurry up, goalie!”
I’m like, “I’ve not got the ball yet. I need to get the football before I can put it down and kick it.” And they’ll start giving you the abuse back. That part I enjoy. I do enjoy that part, I must admit.
Darren (Host):
So, sort of winding fans up a little bit. So, Evie Martinez, Aston Villa or Argentina goalkeeper?
Darren (Guest):
100%. If I was on a bigger stage, I would be up there with Martinez. I think I like the idea of being a showman. I like the entertainment side of that as well. I do.
Darren (Host):
So, is it more showman than shithousery? Is that what you’re thinking?
Darren (Guest):Well, we’ll go showman. Showman. It could be—it could be either way. It depends if your team’s winning. If your team’s winning, it looks good. If your team’s losing, you try your best to hold the game up.
And that means the fans are like, “Oh, now you’re running. Now you’re getting there. Now you’re trying to be fast.”
Darren (Host):
Yeah, now you’re not lying down on the ball for eight seconds before getting up.
Darren (Guest):
Exactly. Works either way. If you’re winning, it’s better, though.
Darren (Host):
So, I think we need to talk gloves now, don’t we?
Darren (Guest):
100%.
Darren (Host):
We need to talk gloves, because you’ve got a new brand of goalkeeper gloves coming out. Do you want to tell me what inspired you to do those?
Darren (Guest):
What inspired me? I’ve just always had a passion for goalkeeping, to be perfectly honest with you. The initial plan was actually—or the initial thought process, I should maybe say—was way back in February of this year.
Pretty much wanted to start it myself. I had the business plan written down on a piece of paper. I’ve still got the business plan, actually. Basically what I thought, what I would like the business to look like in a year’s time, what I would like the business to look like in three years, what I’d like it to look like in five years.
And I basically wrote it all down, and it never really came to anything. The reason it has come to something now is probably my brother hates me, you know that? [Laughs]
So, my brother—my brother’s name is Derek John, and he’s over on St. John just now. He’s been on St. John in Perth for—he’s been over there for about eight years.
I would probably say, minus this year, we’d speak to each other once a month. “Hi, bro, how you doing?” “Good, aye. How’s life?” “Aye, good.” He’s got two kids as well, so, “How’s the kids?” Blah, blah, blah.
I came to him in July, and I said to him, “I want to start a business. I have no idea how to start a business. You know how to start a business. You’re good with computers. You do the background stuff. I’ll do the salesman job.”
And within six, six-and-a-half weeks, seven weeks, we had the glove, we had the sample glove, we had the glove ready, we had the website up and running.
And we had—I couldn’t even tell you how many videos we had. Multiple videos trying to sell the glove, trying to show people the glove, and just basically engaging with all the different social medias.
And it was all thanks to my brother. And he likes the bragging rights—he’s pretending he doesn’t like it, but he does. He gets all the praise in the world from me because he’s pretty much started absolutely everything for me.
Darren (Host):
That’s brilliant.
Darren (Guest):
And there were a couple of times where I’m saying to him, “It’s not working, Derek. Let’s forget about it. It was a good laugh.” And then he’d say, “Hold on a minute. I’ve got this covered. I’ve done this. I’ve done that.”
Whatever it is that he’s had to do, and he pretty much got us to the point where on the 11th of October, we launched the glove.
And I mean, we’re not going to look back. We’re going to just look forward from now on, and we’re just going to keep trying to build the brand and see where it goes.
Darren (Host):
And how are you selling the glove? Is it just via the website and direct to consumers, or are you looking for stockists?
Darren (Guest):
Well, so right now we’ve got… they’ve been absolutely brilliant with us as well, F Corporation, which is in Pakistan. I’m in direct contact with them, and they basically just send me the gloves.
I’ll find somewhere to stock them here. Might be in the shed or in the roof—they can be wherever they want—but I’m pretty much in charge of that side of it. So, I’m looking to try and be the face of the company, basically.
Having a wee bit of a reputation in the game, I’d like to think that I’ve got loads of contacts and loads of people who know me. The ones that don’t know me, I would like to think that I’m friendly enough that they can come and contact me.
And basically just try and work my way through with these types of gloves. As far as the designing that goes, that’s kind of been down to me as well, obviously knowing the ins and outs of the gloves—whether it be the cut of the glove, how big the strap is going to have to be on the glove, or just everything to do with a glove, basically, I’ve managed to do.
And like I said, I feel like I’m potentially a glorified salesman, and my brother does all the nice bits behind closed doors, basically.
Darren (Host): What’s the plan for the glove? What are you hoping to achieve with it? What sales are you hoping to get?
Darren (Guest):
I mean, we’ve got our plans. I wouldn’t like to obviously say them out loud, but the stuff that we’ve got planned already—it’s astronomical compared to what I would have originally planned.
I had a goal—not that I’m going to give away the business plans and stuff like that—but one of my goals was to sell 10 pairs of gloves every month for six months.
We’ve been a company now for—if you include the pre-sale—two weeks. Two weeks today we’ve officially launched, and we’ve already met that target. So, the gloves that we’ve sold already are more than 10 pairs per month for six months.
So, I need to then look at now—I need to obviously reassess and make sure that the next goal that I make is not just achievable but a little bit more, um, what’s the word?
Darren (Host):
Ambitious?
Darren (Guest):
Ambitious. That’s it. Yeah. A bit more of a dream. A bit higher up. Yeah, just 10 pairs of gloves a month, I thought, was going to be sensible.
It’s turned out that it’s much, much more than that. And we’re already ready to restock the gloves that we originally had.
For anyone that’s going to watch this—because it’s not giving anything away—but there’s Boxing Day sales on the 29th of November, and we’re hoping to have a new design for then.
Darren (Host):
Oh, exciting.
Darren (Guest):
A new design and a new color. That’s the only clue you’re getting on that—not telling you anything else.
Darren (Host):
To get technical on the gloves, I showed them to a friend of mine who does play goalkeeper still, well into his 30s. He’s not professional or anything—he plays for a local team—but thinks he’s brilliant.
He’s a Man United fan, so he would think he’s brilliant—overinflated ambition of his own importance. He broke his finger a few years ago, and he mentioned the gloves he’s got now have, I think, a spinal support on one of the fingers.
Darren (Guest):
Yeah, yeah.
Darren (Host): He was wondering if the gloves that you’ve got—you’re going to incorporate that into future designs?
Darren (Guest):
I actually won’t. There’s a very specific reason, and it’s purely down to myself. I actually played a game—it was a reserve game up in Dundee—and I went to catch the ball, and the spine actually broke in my finger in the glove and actually then broke my finger as well.
So, me personally, I don’t like the spinal things. I feel like they’re a little bit restrictive. If you feel like you need that, I just kind of tape my fingers rather than do anything to do with the gloves.
So, as far as the spine supports—no, I don’t think they’ll ever come into play. But, I mean, you can never say never at this point.
Darren (Host):
That’s a good answer. That’s a good answer. Omar, if you’re listening, that’s why. Tape your fingers, mate. Do it properly.
Darren (Guest):
[Laughs] That’s it. Tape my wrist, tape my fingers, and then let the glove do what it needs to do on top.
Darren (Host):
For people listening to this, then, who want to get these gloves, where can they order them?
Darren (Guest):
I mean, the website’s the best place. We’ve got www.dj-gk.co.uk, so spell it out. It’s d-e-j-a-y-g-k.co.uk. And you’ve pretty much got everything you need on there.
We’ve got a clothing brand—this jumper that I’ve got on—it’s got a little bit of a logo on it.
Darren (Host):
I like it.
Darren (Guest):
It’s got a DJ logo on it as well. So, I mean, we’ve got things like that. We’ve got snoods. We’ve got loads of different sort of goalkeeping apparel on the website as well.
I personally wear a lot of it, and I love everything that we’ve done. That’s the reason why we’ve backed it. And the gloves are obviously on the website as well.
Hopefully, another set, another design, another color is going to be on the website very, very soon as well.
Darren (Host):
And if somebody wanted to purchase a signed pair of gloves, for example, is that an option?
Darren (Guest):
It’s not an option actually, but it should be.
Darren (Host):
It should be!
Darren (Guest):
On the actual design of the gloves—I should’ve actually… a little bit unprepared, to be honest—should have had the gloves here. The actual glove itself, on the palm of the hand, has actually got my signature on it.
Darren (Host):
Oh, brilliant!
Darren (Guest):
So technically, the gloves are signed because that is exactly how I sign. I try my best to sign it like that. So the signature is definitely there.
But as far as a signed pair go, I think we worked it out before that match-worn gloves by me, I could probably sign them and raffle them.
The frustrating part is, well, we don’t want to make any money off them, but we can only do the cost price or how much we’ve paid for the gloves.
So in that case, it only means that you can’t put very much raffle tickets on for a pair of gloves, unfortunately.
But I’m sure if you were to go on the website or the social media pages and request for the gloves to be signed, I’ve got no problem signing them and sending them away if anyone wants that. Usually, they want to wear them right enough. But I mean, if you want them signed, then no problem.
Darren (Host):
Oh, I don’t know. I just think having a pair of goalkeeper gloves signed by Darren Jamieson is quite cool.
Darren (Guest):
You can get a pair—not a problem.
Darren (Host):
I will. I’m going to get a pair. I’ll order some next week.
Darren (Guest):
Fantastic.
Darren (Host):
Darren, it’s been a pleasure. It’s been a pleasure speaking to you. I’ve seen you online for some time. Obviously, you’ve seen me as well—I didn’t realize it.
Thank you very much for being a guest on The Engaging Marketeer Podcast. I’ve loved speaking to you and chatting to you about football. And thank you also to John Murray for the very in-depth football questions that he fed me throughout the podcast.
Darren (Guest):
Thanks, John.
Darren (Host):
Yeah, thanks, John.
Darren (Guest):
Everybody loves John.
Darren (Host):
Everybody loves John.
Darren (Guest):
No, it’s been an absolute pleasure. Thanks for inviting me on as well. I really appreciate it.
Darren (Host):
Alright, thank you!