[0:00]
Darren Jamieson: Welcome back to The Engaging Marketeer podcast. On this week’s episode I’m speaking with Steve Cowgill, who lives in the Middle East and helps people invest in UK property. He teaches expats living in the Middle East how to invest back into the UK because, as Steve describes it, the UK is a great place to invest, but not necessarily a great place to live. Let’s find out how Steve got into that, how he does it, and how he’s actually built up 14 — yes, 14 — different streams of income.
[0:38]
Steve Cowgill: Landlords get a bad name, don’t they? For me, this is much better than commuting between Manchester and Crewe every day. I may as well sit in the sun, tax free, and play a kid’s version of Monopoly. I’m trying to apply very simple principles here.
[1:00]
Darren: So, Steve, let’s start from the beginning. What first brought you out to the Middle East?
[1:07]
Steve: I originally came out here for work. Like a lot of people, I thought it would be a short-term thing, but I ended up staying. And while I was here, I started looking at how I could make my money work better for me. Property in the UK was the obvious route, and then other people started asking me how I was doing it, and it grew from there.
[1:33]
Darren: And did you already have property in the UK before you left?
[1:37]
Steve: I had one place, yes. But I wasn’t really what you’d call an “investor.” It was just the house I owned. It was only once I was in the Middle East and had a bit of disposable income that I thought — what if I did this more seriously? That’s when I started learning about strategies, finance, and how to scale.
[2:02]
Darren: So was it trial and error, or did you get formal training?
[2:05]
Steve: Bit of both. I made mistakes, as you do. But I also invested in education, went on courses, read books, and surrounded myself with people who were already doing it successfully. That helped me avoid the bigger mistakes.
[2:26]
Darren: And at what point did you go from doing this for yourself to teaching other expats how to do the same?
[2:32]
Steve: Pretty quickly, actually. People I worked with out here would see what I was doing and ask, “How did you buy that? How are you managing it from here?” So I’d explain. Then friends of friends would ask. Before long I realised there was a whole group of people in the same position as me — working abroad, earning decent money, but not sure what to do with it.
[2:57]
Darren: So it became more than just a side thing?
[3:00]
Steve: Exactly. It went from me helping a mate over coffee to being a proper business. Now I run programmes where I guide people step by step — how to choose the right property, how to finance it, how to get management in place, everything.
[3:22]
Darren: And you mentioned you’ve now got 14 income streams. I have to ask — what are they?
[3:27]
Steve: [laughs] Property’s the main one, of course. But then there’s coaching, mentoring, online courses, partnerships with other investors, joint ventures, some e-commerce, even a bit of crypto. It’s about diversification.
[3:49]
Darren: So it’s not all property?
[3:51]
Steve: No, though property is the backbone. That’s the reliable one. Everything else builds around it.
[4:06]
Darren: And what’s the property market like right now for people in the Middle East looking to invest in the UK?
[4:11]
Steve: It’s still strong. There are challenges, sure — interest rates, regulations — but the fundamentals are solid. People always need somewhere to live. And if you structure things properly, it still works.
[4:30]
Darren: Do you think there’s a misconception among expats about investing back home?
[4:34]
Steve: Definitely. A lot of people assume it’s too complicated if you’re abroad. They think you have to be there physically, but you don’t. With the right systems, it’s very doable.
[4:52]
Darren: And how do you actually manage properties from so far away?
[4:55]
Steve: I use letting agents and trusted partners. I’ve built relationships over time. Communication is key. These days, with technology, you can see everything remotely. It’s easier than people think.
[5:16]
Darren: So the people you coach — are they mostly in the Middle East?
[5:20]
Steve: Mostly, yes. But I’ve worked with expats in Asia, Africa, even the U.S. The principles are the same. It’s just the logistics that change slightly.
[5:37]
Darren: What do you think makes the UK such a good place to invest, even though you’ve said it’s not necessarily the best place to live?
[5:44]
Steve: The legal system. The regulation. The mortgage market. The demand. All of those things make it stable and attractive for investors. Living there might be a different story — cost of living, taxes — but as a place to put money into property, it’s excellent.
[6:10]
Darren: So for somebody listening to this who’s an expat and thinking, “Should I put money into UK property?” — where should they start?
[6:18]
Steve: Education first. Don’t rush in. Learn about the strategies, the numbers, the risks. Then build a team. You need a mortgage broker, a solicitor, a letting agent. Once you’ve got that, you can move confidently.
[6:41]
Darren: What kind of mistakes do you see people making?
[6:44]
Steve: Buying the wrong property — usually something they like personally, rather than what works as an investment. Or not running the numbers properly. Or trying to do everything themselves without building a team.
[7:06]
Darren: And your own mistakes — what would you say was your biggest?
[7:10]
Steve: [laughs] I once bought a property without really understanding the area. Looked great on paper, but the tenant demand wasn’t there. It sat empty for months. I learned quickly after that to always research demand first.
[7:34]
Darren: And that kind of mistake must be even riskier if you’re managing from abroad.
[7:38]
Steve: Exactly. Which is why I preach systems and research. If you’ve got those, you’ll be fine.
[7:55]
Darren: So when you started helping people, did you formalise it straight away as a business?
[7:59]
Steve: Not immediately. It grew naturally. But eventually I realised — this is something people are willing to pay for, because it saves them time, money, and mistakes. That’s when I made it official.
[8:20]
Darren: And how do people usually find you?
[8:22]
Steve: Word of mouth, mainly. But also through social media. I put content out — videos, posts — sharing what I do, and people reach out.
[8:39]
Darren: Do you think social media is essential for building trust in this business?
[8:43]
Steve: Absolutely. People need to see you, hear you, get a sense of who you are. Especially if they’re handing you money or trusting your advice. Visibility builds credibility.
[9:04]
Darren: And do you see this as your long-term future?
[9:07]
Steve: Yes. Property will always be there. And helping people is rewarding. I see it growing, not stopping.
[9:23]
Darren: And do you have a particular favourite strategy in property?
[9:26]
Steve: Buy-to-let is still my favourite. Simple, straightforward, reliable. Other strategies come and go in popularity, but that one’s timeless.
[9:44]
Darren: Brilliant. We’ll dive into those strategies in a moment, but first let’s talk about how you actually started scaling.
[10:00]
Darren: Once you’d bought one or two and realised this could really work, what was the next step?
[10:06]
Steve: The next step was leverage. Using finance to scale up. I realised pretty quickly that if I just relied on my own cash, it would take forever to build a portfolio. Mortgages, refinancing, recycling money — that’s how you grow faster.
[10:26]
Darren: And that’s something people are often wary of, isn’t it — taking on debt?
[10:30]
Steve: Yeah, a lot of people think debt is bad. But there’s good debt and bad debt. A mortgage that pays for itself because the tenant covers it — that’s good debt. It’s an asset paying for the liability.
[10:49]
Darren: And were banks generally happy to lend to someone living abroad?
[10:52]
Steve: Not at first. It can be tricky as an expat, because you don’t have the same paperwork or credit profile. But there are specialist lenders, and once you’ve done one or two deals and built a track record, it gets easier.
[11:13]
Darren: So what kind of properties were you focusing on early on?
[11:16]
Steve: Standard buy-to-lets, mainly in the North. Places with good rental demand, not too expensive to buy. Nothing fancy — just solid, bread-and-butter properties.
[11:33]
Darren: And did you ever consider HMOs or more advanced strategies?
[11:37]
Steve: Later, yes. I did some HMOs, some serviced accommodation. They can be more profitable, but they’re also more work. For most expats, I still recommend simple single lets. They’re easier to manage from a distance.
[12:00]
Darren: That makes sense. So when you started teaching, did you package that advice into courses?
[12:05]
Steve: Yes, I built a programme. It’s a mix of online content, live calls, and one-to-one mentoring. The idea is to take someone from zero knowledge to buying their first property, with me guiding them through every step.
[12:27]
Darren: And how many people have you worked with so far?
[12:30]
Steve: Hundreds now. Over the years it’s grown and grown. Some of my clients have gone from buying their first property to building six-figure portfolios.
[12:48]
Darren: That must be satisfying.
[12:50]
Steve: Hugely. Seeing someone’s confidence grow, and knowing I’ve helped them secure their future — that’s the best part.
[13:06]
Darren: And what about regulation? Has that affected your work or your clients?
[13:10]
Steve: Regulation has definitely increased. Things like Section 24, licensing for HMOs, changes in mortgage criteria. It can put people off. But again, if you understand the rules, you can work within them.
[13:33]
Darren: Do you think the government has it in for landlords?
[13:36]
Steve: [laughs] Sometimes it feels like it! Landlords get painted as the villains, when in reality most of us are providing good homes for people. But that’s why education is important — knowing how to adapt when the rules change.
[13:57]
Darren: And do you think the current climate is tougher or easier for new investors compared to when you started?
[14:03]
Steve: Tougher in some ways — higher interest rates, stricter lending, more regulation. But easier in others — more information, more support networks, better technology. So I’d say it balances out.
[14:24]
Darren: You mentioned technology there. How important is that for expats investing back home?
[14:28]
Steve: Massive. You can do viewings on Zoom, sign contracts digitally, track rent payments online. When I started, it wasn’t as advanced. Now you can manage almost everything remotely.
[14:49]
Darren: So what would you say is the biggest barrier stopping expats from getting started?
[14:53]
Steve: Fear. Fear of the unknown, fear of making mistakes. Once people see the process laid out clearly, they realise it’s achievable.
[15:12]
Darren: And how do you personally help them get over that fear?
[15:16]
Steve: By simplifying. Breaking things down into clear steps. Showing them examples of people just like them who’ve succeeded. And being there as a safety net.
[15:34]
Darren: And do you get a lot of repeat clients, people who come back for further help?
[15:38]
Steve: Yes, absolutely. Someone does one property with me, and then they want to do two, three, four. Once they see it works, they keep going.
[15:54]
Darren: And is there a particular success story that stands out to you?
[15:58]
Steve: One client started with literally no knowledge. He was working out here, had some savings, and thought he’d just buy one house. Two years later, he had six properties and passive income that covered his living expenses. That’s life-changing.
[16:25]
Darren: That’s incredible. And how much of that success do you think is down to mindset versus strategy?
[16:30]
Steve: Mindset is huge. Strategy is important, of course, but if you don’t believe you can do it, you won’t. I spend a lot of time on mindset with my clients.
[16:49]
Darren: And did you have to work on your own mindset when you started?
[16:52]
Steve: Definitely. I didn’t grow up with money. Investing seemed like something “other people” did. It took a shift in my thinking to realise — why not me?
[17:12]
Darren: So what helped you make that shift?
[17:15]
Steve: Being around people who were already doing it. Seeing it’s possible. If you’re only around people who say “that’ll never work,” you’ll never try. Surround yourself with doers, not doubters.
[17:36]
Darren: That’s powerful advice. And what about your family? Were they supportive of you investing?
[17:41]
Steve: Mixed, at first. Some were sceptical — “Why risk it?” But once they saw results, they came around. Now they’re proud of what I’ve built.
[18:00]
Darren: And your kids — are they interested in what you do?
[18:03]
Steve: [laughs] They’re still young, so not really. To them it’s just “Dad’s on the laptop again.” But one day I’ll teach them.
[18:19]
Darren: That brings me nicely onto legacy. Is part of this about leaving something behind for your family?
[18:24]
Steve: Yes. Property is tangible. It’s something I can pass on. And the knowledge too — teaching them how to think about money and investing. That’s as valuable as the houses themselves.
[18:44]
Darren: Do you think property is still the best asset class for that kind of long-term legacy?
[18:48]
Steve: For me, yes. Stocks, crypto — they have their place, but property is solid. It’s not going to vanish overnight.
[19:06]
Darren: And you mentioned diversification earlier. How do you decide which other income streams to pursue?
[19:11]
Steve: I look at opportunities that complement what I’m already doing. For example, coaching naturally grew from property. E-commerce and online business are more experimental, but they all link back to building multiple sources of income.
[19:34]
Darren: So you’re not just chasing trends?
[19:37]
Steve: No, there has to be a fit. Otherwise you spread yourself too thin.
[19:50]
Darren: Brilliant. Let’s dig a bit deeper into those property strategies now. You’ve mentioned buy-to-let, HMOs, serviced accommodation. Can you break down the pros and cons of each?
[20:09]
Steve: Sure. Buy-to-let is the simplest. You buy a property, rent it out to a single tenant or family, and collect rent. Low maintenance, steady income, less hassle. HMOs — Houses in Multiple Occupation — you rent to several tenants individually, usually by the room. Higher cashflow, but also higher management. More regulation too.
[20:36]
Serviced accommodation is essentially short-term lets — like Airbnb. Profits can be huge, but it’s very hands-on. You need cleaners, check-ins, marketing. It can work well, but it’s not for everyone, especially expats.
[20:57]
Darren: So if someone listening is an expat who doesn’t have time to deal with the day-to-day, you’d still say buy-to-let is best?
[21:04]
Steve: Yes. Keep it simple. You don’t need the fanciest strategy to build wealth. Buy-to-lets are reliable, easier to finance, and easier to manage from abroad.
[21:21]
Darren: And what about flips? Buying, renovating, and selling on?
[21:25]
Steve: Flips are fine, but they’re a business, not an investment. You have to be actively involved. They’re also harder to do as an expat, unless you’ve got a partner on the ground. I see flips as a way to generate cash, not passive income.
[21:48]
Darren: That’s an important distinction — cashflow versus passive income.
[21:51]
Steve: Exactly. A flip gives you a lump sum once. A buy-to-let gives you income every month, year after year. If you want financial freedom, you need assets that pay you repeatedly.
[22:11]
Darren: And what about commercial property?
[22:14]
Steve: I’ve dabbled, but it’s not my main focus. Commercial can be lucrative, but it’s a different ballgame. Bigger risks, bigger rewards. For most expats starting out, I wouldn’t recommend it straight away.
[22:34]
Darren: So really, the message is: don’t overcomplicate it?
[22:37]
Steve: Exactly. Start simple, master the basics, then expand. Too many people get shiny object syndrome and jump into advanced strategies before they’re ready.
[22:56]
Darren: Do you think social media contributes to that — people showing off big profits from fancy strategies?
[23:01]
Steve: Definitely. You see a guy on Instagram saying he made £10,000 a month from Airbnb, and you think you should do that too. But you don’t see the work behind it, the costs, the headaches.
[23:22]
Darren: So how do you keep your clients grounded?
[23:25]
Steve: By showing the full picture. Yes, HMOs and serviced accommodation can make more money. But they also come with more stress. If someone’s working full-time abroad, they don’t need that. Stick to what fits your lifestyle.
[23:47]
Darren: That’s a good point — fit for lifestyle.
[23:50]
Steve: Exactly. Your investment strategy should serve you, not the other way around.
[24:05]
Darren: So when you’re coaching people, do you have a set framework you take them through?
[24:09]
Steve: Yes. First, we look at their goals. Do they want cashflow, capital growth, or both? Then we look at budget and risk appetite. From there, we choose a strategy that matches. Then it’s about implementation — finding properties, financing, management.
[24:34]
Darren: And how long does it usually take someone from first speaking to you to buying their first property?
[24:39]
Steve: It varies, but typically three to six months. Depends on how quickly they take action, how available financing is, and what the market’s like.
[24:56]
Darren: And do you have clients who never get there?
[24:59]
Steve: A few. Usually because they let fear or procrastination stop them. Which is frustrating, because they’ve got everything in place, but they don’t pull the trigger.
[25:19]
Darren: So is accountability a big part of what you offer?
[25:22]
Steve: Huge. Sometimes people know exactly what to do, but they need someone to keep them moving. That’s where I come in.
[25:39]
Darren: And what about finance — do you help people with that side as well?
[25:42]
Steve: I don’t give financial advice, but I connect them with brokers who specialise in expats. That’s crucial — working with people who understand your situation.
[25:59]
Darren: And do you find most expats are cash buyers or mortgage buyers?
[26:03]
Steve: Bit of both. Some have the cash to buy outright, but even then I suggest leverage. If you can borrow at, say, 5% and your property makes 8%, why tie up all your cash?
[26:26]
Darren: That’s a great point. So what’s the minimum someone needs to get started?
[26:30]
Steve: Realistically, about £30–40,000. That covers a deposit, fees, and a bit of a buffer. More is better, of course, but you don’t need hundreds of thousands.
[26:52]
Darren: And do people ever come to you with unrealistic expectations?
[26:56]
Steve: All the time. They’ll say, “I’ve got £10,000, can I buy a house?” Not in today’s market. But then we look at options — maybe joint ventures, maybe starting smaller. There’s usually a way forward.
[27:20]
Darren: And do you ever discourage people from investing?
[27:23]
Steve: Yes. If someone’s in debt, or doesn’t have a stable income, or if their mindset’s not right. Property isn’t a get-rich-quick scheme. If you’re not prepared for the long term, it’s not for you.
[27:44]
Darren: That’s refreshingly honest.
[27:46]
Steve: I’d rather lose a client than see someone make a mistake they regret.
[28:00]
Darren: And in terms of areas — you mentioned the North earlier. Do you still recommend that over the South?
[28:05]
Steve: Generally, yes. Yields are higher in the North — places like Manchester, Liverpool, Leeds. London can be great for capital growth, but the entry price is so high. For most expats, the North offers better value.
[28:29]
Darren: And do you have contacts in those areas who help with sourcing?
[28:32]
Steve: Yes. I’ve built a network of agents, sourcers, and developers. Having boots on the ground makes a huge difference.
[28:49]
Darren: And do you charge people for access to that network?
[28:52]
Steve: It’s part of the programme. They’re paying for my guidance, and that includes introductions to trusted partners.
[29:09]
Darren: That’s valuable. A lot of people probably waste money working with the wrong people.
[29:13]
Steve: Exactly. I’ve made those mistakes, so my clients don’t have to.
[29:26]
Darren: So at this point, how many properties do you personally have in your portfolio?
[29:30]
Steve: Around 20. Some single lets, some HMOs, a couple of serviced accommodations. I’ve slowed down a bit recently because I’m focusing more on helping others, but the portfolio is still strong.
[29:56]
Darren: That’s impressive.
[29:58]
Steve: Thank you. It’s been a journey, but worth every step.
[30:00]
Darren: So, Steve, with 20 properties in your portfolio, are you still actively buying, or are you more focused on coaching now?
[30:07]
Steve: A bit of both. I still buy when the right deal comes up — you’ve always got to keep your investor hat on. But the majority of my time now goes into coaching and helping others, because that’s where I get the most satisfaction these days.
[30:29]
Darren: Do you find that helps your own investing too — because you’re constantly keeping up to date?
[30:33]
Steve: Absolutely. Teaching forces you to stay sharp. I’m always learning, because I have to answer tough questions and stay ahead of changes in the market.
[30:50]
Darren: And with your clients, do you tend to work one-to-one, or in groups?
[30:54]
Steve: Both. I run group programmes, but also offer one-to-one mentoring for people who want more personalised guidance. Some people prefer the accountability of one-to-one; others like the community aspect of group learning.
[31:16]
Darren: Do you get people coming to you who’ve already invested before, or mostly complete beginners?
[31:21]
Steve: A mix. Some are total beginners, never bought a property in their life. Others already have one or two but want to scale. I even get experienced investors who just want support navigating the UK system from abroad.
[31:45]
Darren: So do you ever get someone who thinks they know it all already?
[31:48]
Steve: [laughs] Occasionally. But usually those people realise pretty quickly that there’s always more to learn. Property’s one of those fields where the rules change constantly.
[32:07]
Darren: And how do you keep yourself updated with all the changes?
[32:10]
Steve: Reading, networking, going to events, talking with brokers and solicitors. I make sure I’m plugged into the right circles. That way, I hear about changes as soon as they happen.
[32:32]
Darren: Do you think that’s one of the big advantages you give your clients — that shortcut to the right information?
[32:36]
Steve: Exactly. They don’t have to spend hours sifting through conflicting advice online. I’ve done the research, I’ve tested it, and I give them what works.
[32:54]
Darren: And do you feel like the perception of landlords has changed over the years?
[32:58]
Steve: Yes. Landlords get a bad rap — greedy, uncaring, that kind of thing. But most of us are just ordinary people providing homes. I always tell my clients: treat tenants well, and you’ll avoid most problems.
[33:20]
Darren: Do you think the media plays into that negative stereotype?
[33:23]
Steve: Definitely. Bad stories sell. You’ll hear about the landlord who neglects their property, but not about the thousands who do everything right.
[33:41]
Darren: And has that ever personally affected you?
[33:44]
Steve: Not really. I just focus on doing things properly. If your tenants are happy and your properties are well-managed, that reputation doesn’t touch you.
[34:03]
Darren: So when you talk to new investors, do you warn them about the realities of being a landlord?
[34:07]
Steve: Absolutely. It’s not all passive income and sunshine. You’ll deal with maintenance, voids, the odd bad tenant. But if you budget properly and put systems in place, it’s manageable.
[34:29]
Darren: What’s the worst tenant situation you’ve had?
[34:32]
Steve: [laughs] One guy stopped paying rent and vanished, left the place in a mess. It took months to sort. But those are rare cases. Most tenants are fine.
[34:50]
Darren: And how do you handle those situations from abroad?
[34:53]
Steve: Through my letting agents. That’s why having the right team is so important. I don’t get dragged into the day-to-day.
[35:10]
Darren: And do you think that’s what puts a lot of people off — the fear of tenants causing problems?
[35:14]
Steve: Yes. People imagine nightmare tenants, but again, that’s the exception. With proper referencing and good management, you minimise the risks.
[35:34]
Darren: So, for someone listening, if they wanted to get started tomorrow, what’s the first practical step?
[35:39]
Steve: Get clear on your finances. Know how much you can invest, what mortgages you can access, and what your budget is. That dictates everything else.
[35:56]
Darren: And once they’ve got that sorted?
[35:58]
Steve: Then research areas. Don’t just pick your hometown. Look at rental demand, yields, growth potential. Choose areas that make sense financially.
[36:18]
Darren: Do you have favourite areas personally?
[36:21]
Steve: Manchester’s strong, Liverpool’s good, parts of Yorkshire. I like university towns too — steady demand from students.
[36:39]
Darren: And what about the South — anywhere you’d recommend?
[36:42]
Steve: Some commuter towns can work, but yields are usually lower. If you’re after cashflow, the North is better. If you want capital growth, maybe look at the South East.
[37:04]
Darren: Do you think Brexit had much impact on the property market?
[37:07]
Steve: Short term, yes — uncertainty, people waiting to see what would happen. But long term, property’s carried on. People still need homes.
[37:25]
Darren: And what about COVID — was that a bigger impact?
[37:28]
Steve: Huge. At first everything froze. But then it rebounded strongly. Remote working changed demand — more people wanted bigger homes, more space, gardens. That’s still shaping the market today.
[37:53]
Darren: Did that change your own strategy?
[37:56]
Steve: A little. I started looking at houses with home office space. But overall, the fundamentals stayed the same.
[38:13]
Darren: And do you think remote working has permanently changed the property landscape?
[38:17]
Steve: Yes. People aren’t as tied to commuting anymore, so demand has shifted. Some areas outside big cities have grown because people realise they don’t need to live right next to the office.
[38:38]
Darren: Do you think that’s a good thing for investors?
[38:41]
Steve: It creates opportunities. Areas that used to be overlooked are now attractive. Investors who spot those trends early can do very well.
[38:59]
Darren: And are you actively looking for those kinds of opportunities now?
[39:02]
Steve: Always. The market’s always shifting. You’ve got to adapt.
[39:17]
Darren: So adaptability is the key?
[39:19]
Steve: 100%. If you stay rigid, you’ll get left behind.
[39:35]
Darren: Brilliant. We’ll come back to the future of the market in a bit, but I’d like to hear more about your 14 income streams.
[39:42]
Steve: [laughs] Okay, let’s get into that.
[40:00]
Darren: So, Steve, let’s break it down. What are your 14 different income streams?
[40:05]
Steve: Right, so first is property — buy-to-lets, HMOs, serviced accommodation. That’s the backbone. Second is coaching and mentoring, where I work with expats one-to-one or in groups. Third is online courses — more scalable, people can learn at their own pace.
[40:30]
Then I’ve got partnerships and joint ventures with other investors, where we team up on deals. I also have some affiliate income, where I recommend services I use and trust. Then there’s e-commerce — I run a couple of online shops.
[40:52]
I’ve got some investments in crypto — not huge, but enough to count. I also do a bit of trading, and I’ve got dividend-paying stocks. Then there’s speaking engagements, consultancy for businesses, and a book I’ve written that generates royalties.
[41:17]
So when you add them all up, it’s 14. The key for me is not relying on any single one. If one slows down, the others balance it out.
[41:33]
Darren: That’s impressive. Do you think diversification is essential for financial freedom?
[41:38]
Steve: Yes and no. You don’t want to spread yourself too thin — focus is still important. But once you’ve got one strong stream, it makes sense to branch out.
[41:54]
Darren: And do you teach your clients to diversify as well, or do you tell them to focus purely on property?
[41:59]
Steve: Focus first. Master property, get it working. Then, once you’ve built that foundation, you can look at other things.
[42:15]
Darren: So which of those income streams is your favourite?
[42:18]
Steve: Property, without a doubt. It’s tangible, reliable, and it’s what allowed me to build everything else.
[42:34]
Darren: And which is the most fun?
[42:36]
Steve: Probably the speaking. I enjoy being on stage, sharing my story, connecting with people. It doesn’t even feel like work.
[42:52]
Darren: And which one’s the most passive?
[42:55]
Steve: Dividends from stocks. That’s money coming in without me lifting a finger. Property’s fairly passive too once it’s set up properly.
[43:13]
Darren: Do you think the idea of “passive income” gets oversold online?
[43:16]
Steve: Massively. There’s no such thing as completely passive. Everything takes some setup, some monitoring. But you can get to the point where income is relatively hands-off.
[43:36]
Darren: And do you think people underestimate how long it takes to get there?
[43:40]
Steve: Yes. They expect results overnight. In reality, it takes years of consistent effort. But it’s worth it.
[43:57]
Darren: So what does a typical day look like for you now?
[44:00]
Steve: I split my time. Some days are coaching calls, some are content creation, some are looking at new deals. And because I live in the Middle East, I make time for the lifestyle too — the sunshine, family time.
[44:21]
Darren: Do you think living out there gives you an advantage?
[44:24]
Steve: In some ways, yes. Tax benefits, networking with other expats, seeing opportunities globally. But the main advantage is perspective — being away from the UK makes you see things differently.
[44:45]
Darren: Do you think you’ll ever move back to the UK?
[44:48]
Steve: Probably not full-time. I visit, of course, but my life’s out here now.
[45:02]
Darren: And do you find a lot of expats feel the same way?
[45:05]
Steve: Yes. Once you’ve lived abroad, it’s hard to go back. But most still want that financial link to the UK, which is why investing there makes sense.
[45:22]
Darren: So would you say the UK is still the best place for them to invest, even if they don’t want to live there?
[45:27]
Steve: For property, yes. Other countries have opportunities, but the UK is familiar, regulated, and strong.
[45:44]
Darren: And do you think the market will remain strong in the long term?
[45:47]
Steve: Yes. There will always be ups and downs, but the fundamentals — limited supply, strong demand — aren’t changing anytime soon.
[46:04]
Darren: So what advice would you give to someone who’s still sitting on the fence about investing?
[46:08]
Steve: Start small, but start. The longer you wait, the harder it gets. Even one property can change your financial trajectory.
[46:27]
Darren: And what’s the biggest misconception people have about you personally?
[46:31]
Steve: That I’m some kind of financial genius. I’m not. I just took action, learned from mistakes, and kept going.
[46:49]
Darren: Do you think people underestimate the power of consistency?
[46:52]
Steve: Definitely. Consistency beats intensity. Doing small things regularly compounds into big results.
[47:09]
Darren: And is that something you also teach in your coaching?
[47:12]
Steve: Yes. I tell people it’s better to make steady progress than to sprint and burn out.
[47:27]
Darren: Do you think social media sometimes creates unrealistic expectations there too?
[47:31]
Steve: Absolutely. You see people flashing cars and holidays, but you don’t see the years of work behind it. I try to be transparent about the reality.
[47:49]
Darren: And do you think that honesty is why people trust you?
[47:52]
Steve: I think so. I don’t sugarcoat. I tell people it’s hard work, but doable. That builds credibility.
[48:09]
Darren: So do you think credibility is more important than visibility?
[48:13]
Steve: They go hand in hand. You need visibility so people find you, but credibility keeps them.
[48:29]
Darren: And how do you build that credibility day-to-day?
[48:32]
Steve: By delivering results. If my clients succeed, that’s my best marketing. Testimonials, case studies — they speak louder than anything I say.
[48:51]
Darren: Do you think most of your business comes from word of mouth now?
[48:54]
Steve: Yes. Social media gets me attention, but referrals close the deals. Happy clients bring more clients.
[49:11]
Darren: And do you think that model will continue to work as you scale?
[49:15]
Steve: Yes, as long as I keep delivering quality. Word spreads.
[49:29]
Darren: Brilliant. Let’s wrap up this part by asking — what’s next for you?
[49:34]
Steve: Growth, but sustainable growth. I don’t want to just add more for the sake of it. I want to refine, improve, and keep enjoying what I do. I see myself still in the Middle East, still investing, still coaching. But I also see myself building more freedom — so I’m working less, enjoying life more, while my systems and investments do the heavy lifting.
[50:26]
Darren: Do you think that’s the ultimate goal — freedom?
[50:29]
Steve: Yes. Money’s great, but it’s only a tool. What you really want is freedom — freedom of time, freedom of choice. That’s what property has given me, and that’s what I want to help others achieve.
[50:51]
Darren: And do you think most people actually define that clearly enough?
[50:54]
Steve: No, not at all. They’ll say they want more money, but they don’t ask, “Why?” Once you know what freedom looks like for you — maybe it’s retiring early, maybe it’s more time with family — then you can design your strategy around it.
[51:17]
Darren: That’s a really good point. And do you think that’s why some investors fail — because they don’t have that “why”?
[51:22]
Steve: Exactly. Without a clear why, it’s easy to give up when things get tough. The people who succeed are the ones with a strong reason driving them.
[51:41]
Darren: And what’s your why?
[51:44]
Steve: Family. Giving my kids options I never had. Showing them that life can be different. That’s what keeps me going.
[52:01]
Darren: Do you ever think about retiring completely?
[52:04]
Steve: Not really. I enjoy what I do. I might slow down, but I can’t see myself stopping completely. I’d get bored!
[52:20]
Darren: And do you think that’s the secret — finding work you enjoy so it doesn’t feel like work?
[52:24]
Steve: Yes. If you love it, you’ll keep doing it. And the results come naturally.
[52:40]
Darren: Final couple of questions. If you could give one piece of advice to your younger self, what would it be?
[52:46]
Steve: Start sooner. Don’t wait. I wasted years thinking I couldn’t do it. If I’d started earlier, I’d be further ahead now.
[54:00]
Darren: Do you have a favourite stream of property investing or revenue?
[54:05]
Steve: Boring vanilla buy-to-lets. That’s it. I’ve got HMOs, but buy-to-lets are my bread and butter. HMOs are more intensive in terms of time and upkeep. Yes, they’re good for cash flow, but they’re very noisy. For me, the UK is an island — population’s only going one way, the housing crisis isn’t being solved, and despite the government pledging to build a million and a half extra homes, it’s not happening. There’s always going to be demand for two- and three-bed houses.
[55:01]
Darren: The only problem is that recent governments have made it harder for landlords — removing mortgage interest relief, tenant rights legislation, all of it. But the outcome is rents will keep rising, tenants will blame landlords, and the government walks away.
[55:20]
Steve: Exactly. I’m data-driven — look at immigration, planning bottlenecks, supply and demand. The numbers don’t lie. Ultimately, tenants cover those extra costs.
[55:40]
Darren: And people are renting more than ever, aren’t they?
[55:43]
Steve: Yes — I saw a stat this morning that renting in the UK is at its highest level ever. It’s harder for people to get onto the property ladder, so renting is becoming the norm.
[56:03]
Darren: And yet people still blame landlords. They think landlords outbid them — which is nonsense, because you need to make profit.
[56:14]
Steve: Exactly. It’s about supply. They need to fix planning, invest in trades, support smaller developers, convert empty offices — there are simple solutions. But politics gets in the way.
[56:46]
Darren: And politicians love bashing landlords — it’s a vote winner.
[56:51]
Steve: Sadly, yes. All we can do is be good landlords — provide safe, compliant, fair housing — and keep building our families’ security.
[57:09]
Darren: Well, that’s a cheery end to the podcast! As a final point, if anyone listening wants to connect with you or join your network, how can they reach you?
[57:20]
Steve: Best way is social media — Facebook or Instagram, just search Steve Cowgill. My surname’s unique — C-O-W-G-I-L-L. Or go to expatpropertypeople.com. You’ll find resources there, plus my Expat Property Podcast, which is on all major platforms.
[57:54]
Darren: Brilliant. Steve, thanks so much for joining me.
[57:57]
Steve: Thanks, Darren — it’s been a pleasure.
[58:05]
Darren: And that’s it for this week’s episode of The Engaging Marketeer. Thanks again to Steve Cowgill for sharing his insights into UK property investing for expats. If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, leave a review, and share it with someone who’d benefit. See you next time.
