Darren Jamieson: On this week’s episode of The Engaging Marketeer, I am speaking with Steve Cowgill, who lives in the Middle East and helps people invest in UK property. He teaches expats living in the Middle East how to invest in the UK, because as Steve describes it, the UK is a great place to invest but not necessarily a great place to live. Let’s find out how Steve got into that, how he does it, and how he’s actually got fourteen – yes, fourteen – different streams of property income.
Darren: So Steve, you’re helping people invest in property.
What first got you interested in doing this?
Steve: Great first question. I think I’ve always, like most people, understood that property investing makes sense. When I became an expat in the Middle East, that generally comes with a higher disposable income. So I did what any logical person would do: save some money, invest in a property, and just go with a bit of naivety really, because the world says that property investing is a good idea, so invest in bricks and mortar. That’s where it started – quite naively, listening to the masses, and just investing.
Darren: Well, you say that’s what most people would do with a higher income. A lot of people will squander it.
Steve: You make a very good point there, and this is something that I’m becoming more and more acutely aware of. With increased disposable income comes increased distraction, especially in this part of the world where you’ve got fast-cash type environments. In places like Dubai you’ve got expensive brunches, exotic holiday locations, and a luxury lifestyle. I remember listening to a stat once that said sixty per cent of UK expats go back to the UK in a worse financial situation than when they arrived, which shouldn’t be the aim of becoming an expat. Yes, it’s there to have a good lifestyle, but also to create stability for the future.
Darren: I mean, it’s been seen to an extreme degree in the UK over the years with footballers. Most footballers throughout the 80s and 90s would get loads of money, live fast, have expensive cars, houses, lifestyles. They’d gamble, and they’d end up skint. Only a handful, like Robbie Fowler and Steve McManaman, famously invested in property around Liverpool, and they don’t have to do anything now. They still do, but they don’t have to. It’s also common in business that the more you earn, the more you spend. You live to your means. If you get a pay rise, you spend it. So it’s a different mindset to actually invest in assets that generate revenue.
Steve: Yeah, one hundred per cent. And when you mentioned the famous people there, I always think of Mike Tyson and all the millions he squandered. Social media doesn’t help either. People only portray the good things – the brunches, the holidays, the cars, the clothes. It doesn’t promote a long-term view of financial security. People just pursue that lifestyle. And in the 80s and 90s, footballers didn’t have that education around wealth creation. There’s probably more of it now, but most everyday people still aren’t taught about profit and loss, credit reports, mortgages. These things aren’t taught in schools. Instead, it’s the fast life on social media that’s promoted, when in reality the slow and steady approach is what creates security.
Darren: Mike Tyson’s a real extreme example. He earned hundreds of millions, and then the whole lot was gone, largely because of who he surrounded himself with – hangers-on who didn’t care about him. Once the money was gone, so were they.
It’s who you surround yourself with and who you take advice from
A lot of people take advice from people they shouldn’t, like the guy in the pub who says “don’t start a business” or “don’t invest in property.” You’ve clearly taken advice from the right people. So where did that start?
Steve: I’ve always been a lifelong student. I’m logical, I like to understand detail, and I ask a lot of questions. My first property covered the mortgage, but it wasn’t hugely successful. I looked around, saw others doing it better, and started researching. I came across personal development coaches and property educators. I did my research, spoke to people, and invested in knowledge. I tried to surround myself with people doing it themselves, even though I’m quite introverted. The saying is true: you’re the average of the five people you surround yourself with. Success leaves clues, so I just followed what successful people were doing.
Darren: There are loads of property trainers and gurus. I believe you went with Simon Zutshi in the end. What made you pick him?
Steve: Once you’re in the property education environment, all the gurus come out, probably thanks to social media algorithms. I think I benefited from not seeing them all. Simon had been doing it a long time. He wasn’t as sensational as some trainers. That was important to me – I preferred a steady, family-oriented, less risky approach. The feedback from others who’d done his course gave me confidence. Since then I’ve seen both great trainers and less credible ones. The danger is people do one course and suddenly market themselves as gurus.
Darren: The criteria I use for picking a trainer is: have they done what you want to do, are they still doing it, and do you like them?
Steve: Exactly. You need to like the person. Sensationalism isn’t wrong, some people like that, but you have to resonate with your mentor.
Darren: You said you’d bought property before working with Simon. What changed afterwards?
Steve: The mindset. As a homeowner, you’re taught debt is bad and you should pay it off. As an investor, debt can be good if used properly. At first, I did everything wrong – repayment mortgage, no work needed on the property, leaving everything to the letting agent. As long as it covered the mortgage, I thought that was fine. Sometimes it cost me money, but I didn’t notice because of my income. After education, I realised about good debt, switched to interest-only, targeted the right tenants, and became more profitable.
Darren: That comes back to what you said about schools not teaching this – mortgages, debt, credit. Most people think all debt is bad. How do you think that needs to change in schools? Or is it deliberate that people aren’t taught this?
Steve: I’m on the fence with conspiracy theories, but the UK education system is archaic and resistant to change. Kids aren’t taught financial management. Some extracurricular stuff exists, especially in Dubai, but it’s often paid for. Teachers aren’t the right people to teach this either – they swap time for money, often at low rates. They’re not entrepreneurs themselves. We should be teaching kids simple things like compounding, interest, and adding value, but it’s not happening.
Darren: My eldest son did a “business” BTEC at college, but it turned out to be customer service training. Nothing about entrepreneurship or real business. They were teaching people to be employees, not entrepreneurs. That’s what the system seems to want – drones, not business owners.
Steve: That’s shocking, but not surprising. Which is why I believe in Daniel Priestley’s advice: get out there, offer yourself for work experience, and learn by being around entrepreneurs. The proactive ones will succeed, not the ones who sit waiting for opportunities.
Darren: Funnily enough, we’ve got a 16-year-old coming in to shadow us. He offered himself, impressed us, and we said yes. He’ll be successful. On that note, Robert Kiyosaki created Cashflow to help kids learn. I’ve got the game and played it with my kids – they beat me straight away. But even then, one of them didn’t apply it in real life with his debt. It’s hard to bridge the gap between game and reality.
Steve: Exactly. That’s the challenge. Cashflow is brilliant, but it’s still a game. The key is teaching kids to apply it in the real world. That’s the skill.
We need to pass that knowledge down so it isn’t lost in future generations
Darren: We could rant about bad financial decisions and the education system all day. Let’s talk about what you do now.
Steve: I came to Oman in 2013 on a leadership programme, was offered a full-time job, and said yes. With the higher disposable income, I started investing in property. Once I had children, my perspective shifted to creating stability. I went from two streams of income to fifteen within a few years by applying what I’d learned. I saw expats lacked resources, so I created Expat Property People – an online community connecting expats with resources, service providers, and each other. We run networking events, webinars, a podcast, and provide access to trusted advisers. It’s about knowledge, community, and mindset.
Darren: Is it just for people in the Middle East?
Steve: The focus is expats, but anyone interested in property can join. We have UK-based service providers and investors in the community too.
Darren: And you’ve got fourteen streams of revenue – all through property?
Steve: Mostly. HMOs, single-lets, pensions invested into stocks. Probably up to sixteen streams now. It’s enough to sustain a family in the UK, though the Middle East is more expensive.
Darren: And you’ve never even visited some of these properties?
Steve: Correct. Expats can make better investors because they’re not emotionally tied. They have to focus on numbers and leverage service providers. That’s a big part of what we teach.
Darren: That’s the key – don’t treat it like a home, treat it as an investment.
Steve: Exactly. But being a landlord still means providing safe, compliant homes at fair rents. The bad landlords give everyone a bad name.
Darren: Do you have a favourite investment type?
Steve: Vanilla buy-to-lets. They’re boring but steady. There’ll always be demand for houses. HMOs and serviced accommodation are good but more intensive.
Darren: The government makes it harder for landlords, but ultimately tenants end up paying higher rents. The demand for property won’t change.
Steve: Absolutely. Immigration is up, housing supply is down, planning is broken. Demand will always outstrip supply. People are renting more now because it’s harder to get on the ladder. But landlords are still blamed, when in reality it’s government policy that pushes rents up.
Darren: Exactly. And building more homes requires fixing planning and investing in trade skills. But politicians don’t think long-term.
Steve: All we can do is be good landlords, good people, and look after our families.
Darren: Well, that’s a cheery end to the podcast! As a final point, if anyone listening wants to get in touch, how can they reach you?
Steve: I’m on Facebook and Instagram – just search for Steve Cowgill. My surname’s unique, c-o-w-g-i-l-l. The website is expatpropertypeople.com, and my podcast Expat Property Podcast is on all major platforms.
Darren: Brilliant. Thanks very much, Steve. I’ve loved having you on as a guest.
Steve: Cheers, thanks a lot.
More about Steve:
Steve Cowgill is a UK expat property investor and community-builder who has spent much of the past decade in Oman, where he grew a seven-figure UK property portfolio that generates a six-figure income and now helps other expats replicate the model. He’s the founder of Expat Property People, a free community that connects overseas investors with trusted UK-focused advisers via webinars, networking and resources, and he hosts the weekly Expat Property Podcast, sharing practical strategies for building and financing portfolios from abroad. His work centres on mindset, leverage, and data-led investing—showing expats how to structure deals, access finance, and build resilient income streams while living overseas.
You can connect with Steve here:
Website: https://stephencowgill.com/ / https://expatpropertypeople.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/steve-cowgill-mba-6111a919/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steve_cowgill/
About your host:
Darren has worked within digital marketing since the last century, and was the first in-house web designer for video games retailer GAME in the UK, known as Electronics Boutique in the States. After co-founding his own agency, Engage Web, in 2009, Darren has worked with clients around the world, including Australia, Canada and the USA.
iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/engaging-marketeer/id1612454837
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darrenjamieson/
Engaging Marketeer: https://engagingmarketeer.com
Engage Web: https://www.engageweb.co.uk
