[00:38] Darren Jamieson:
On this week’s episode of The Engaging Marketeer, I’m speaking to Paul Chambers of Willow Bank Care Home in Persaw. Now, Paul went through what can only be described as a spiritual experience where he started off in sales, had a car accident, was laid up for three months, and then completely changed the direction of his life and his career by moving into the care industry.
[00:53] Darren Jamieson:
I’ll be speaking to Paul about what exactly happened during this car accident and what caused him to have this experience and move into care. And I’ll also be talking to him at some detail about dementia care, how people can find the right care home for them, and what we can do to stave off the onset of dementia. What compelled you to get involved in the care sector in the first place?
[01:27] Paul Chambers:
Okay. Quite a long story.
[01:29] Darren Jamieson:
That’s all right. We’ve got some time.
[01:33] Paul Chambers:
My background personally is about 30 years in sales.
[01:39] Paul Chambers:
Everything from early sales, telly marketing, business development, account management, all those sort of all those roles that fall under sort of BDM related sales role.
[01:48] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[01:53] Paul Chambers:
And sales people not typically ones you’d associate with being caring either.
[01:59] Darren Jamieson:
No, absolutely not at all. Quite the opposite in fact.
[02:03] Paul Chambers:
Yeah, which is why it’s a bit of a surprise to me.
[02:06] Paul Chambers:
But you don’t know what you don’t know until you make those changes and things happen in your life.
[02:12] Paul Chambers:
Which was the case for me. I had a car accident in 2019.
[02:22] Paul Chambers:
Laid up for quite some time. And obviously when you’re laid up and got nothing else to think about or focus on, it’s where do I go next from here?
[02:33] Paul Chambers:
So my journey took me down a route of well I don’t want to just give everything any sales, selling anything, be it health and safety consultancy, whatever the scenario is.
[02:48] Paul Chambers:
So I decided that care was going to be my next new venture.
[02:54] Paul Chambers:
So the only way to combine my sales skills within a care role is to sell care I suppose in essence.
[03:02] Paul Chambers:
So I started my journey in domiciliary care and live-in care and temporary contracts.
[03:10] Paul Chambers:
After 12 months of doing those I then went into a full-time customer relations role in a care home environment, which is the first time I’ve been in a care home in my lifetime.
[03:30] Paul Chambers:
They didn’t really know what to expect.
[03:36] Paul Chambers:
But because of my background, it was quite an easy transition with the skills I had to be able to take families on a journey and sort of hold their hands through the journey from crisis point, not knowing where to turn, to then be able to give them guidance and support and basically tell them that they’re not alone.
[03:53] Paul Chambers:
Because that’s one big thing, is people thinking that they’re alone, and when talking to other people in the same situation it just gives a bit more comfort I think.
[04:09] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[04:14] Paul Chambers:
And security. So doing the role and the fulfilment of supporting families and seeing them go through crisis point where emotionally, financially, all the emotions are all heightened, to then be able to break that down for them in steps in terms of the journey to a point where better quality of time with their loved ones, as opposed to having to do all the caring and being tired and everything else that goes with looking after a loved one at home for example.
[04:52] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[04:55] Paul Chambers:
So that was my initial transition into care.
[05:01] Paul Chambers:
Very quickly then found my passion not for just supporting families but the dementia as a disease I just found absolutely fascinating, fascinating.
[05:17] Paul Chambers:
Whilst it’s a horrible, horrible disease, the effects and the impacts and how that impacts on cognitive abilities and communication and all the other elements that dementia sort of takes away from an individual.
[05:35] Paul Chambers:
So yeah, so then I started to not just involve it into my day-to-day role and understanding the residents and dementia and how that sort of fits and getting my own head around it firstly, is then I wanted, then I did a couple of courses to just get a bit more knowledge.
[05:55] Paul Chambers:
And that sort of stemmed from there really. So I did a few years in a customer relations role.
[06:02] Paul Chambers:
I then had the opportunity to come where I am now, which is Willow Bank, which is a fully residential dementia care home.
[06:17] Paul Chambers:
The reason I took the role on, I had two options at the time that I could choose and that was to continue down the same route within the customer relations role or to take a slightly different tack, my experience, and then take that into a role that’s more focused specifically on dementia.
[06:33] Paul Chambers:
So I’ve digressed from being customer relations and holding families’ hands to now into a role where focus is more on the dementia and the person, that person themselves, and how can we help that person, how can we slow down for you the progression of the dementia and ultimately making sure that everyone sort of lives well with their dementia and has their own journey.
[07:06] Paul Chambers:
Because there is still a person behind the dementia. It might not be the same person as loved ones recognised.
[07:12] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah. Okay. I want to go into that whole dementia care question with you in a moment, but I want to bring you back to what you mentioned right at the start there because it was almost a biblical moment where you were sales and for want of a better word, you know, sales people, we know what they’re like.
[07:33] Darren Jamieson:
You were in sales. You had a car accident. You almost like you had an epiphany and went, no, I want to go into care now. How serious was that car accident to make you change your whole career trajectory?
[07:49] Paul Chambers:
It wasn’t, I’d say, like it wasn’t life changing at all. You know, I came out fairly unscathed other than six broken ribs.
[08:01] Paul Chambers:
Been laid up for three, four months.
[08:03] Darren Jamieson:
Well, that’s a long time.
[08:06] Paul Chambers:
It is a long time. You get to be with your thoughts, don’t you, as well. So that makes me think actually when I’m back up to getting back into the work environment, do I want to go back and continue the same just because it’s familiar or do I want to make a difference in other people’s lives and have a more satisfaction from the roles I’m doing rather than doing the same thing day in, day out.
[08:35] Paul Chambers:
It sounds, but without a passion because you’re selling the same things. It’s the same store. It’s the same spiel.
[08:47] Paul Chambers:
Whereas with dementia and dealing with people living dementia, every day is so different. You can’t plan for it like you can in a sales role. So you’ll get in and you’ll have your tasks to do for the day and you’ll go through your tasks and you’ll sign people up, ring people, whatever it is.
[09:05] Paul Chambers:
But with people, you can’t do that. Especially people with dementia because how I say to some of our relatives, loved ones, it’s like live TV. You really just do not know what’s going to happen at any given moment.
[09:28] Paul Chambers:
And I think that not being the same is more fulfilling than, for me personally, more fulfilling than just doing a job for the sake of doing a job, getting a paycheck, going, paying the bills, doing it again.
[09:45] Paul Chambers:
This is more of a what can I do to make a difference today in other people’s lives and feel good about myself when I go. It’s a very different, a very different approach completely as an industry and it’s not something I’ve ever thought about before.
[10:02] Paul Chambers:
People coming into the care industry, it’s never really an environment I’ve ever had to come to, not for any reason other than it’s not something you had ever thought about too hard about.
[10:16] Paul Chambers:
But once being in it and feeling the power of impinging positively on someone else’s emotion, someone else’s day, being able to communicate little things like just getting a smile out of somebody, it’s the little things that make such a positive difference.
[10:38] Paul Chambers:
And I think having the car accident personally, it’s really helped me in terms of my wellbeing. I’m helping other people now.
[10:49] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[10:49] Darren Jamieson:
Rather than just selling something or other which no one’s going to care about really later down the line pretty much. It’s an odd thing to have happened, isn’t it, to have a car accident and say that was really good for my well-being.
[10:58] to [20:29]
[10:58] Paul Chambers:
Yeah. Yeah. No, you’re right. It is. It sounds odd as well, but isn’t that like how life sort of happens sometimes?
[11:11] Paul Chambers:
Things happen.
[11:14] Paul Chambers:
I’m a big believer in fate, but I do believe that things do happen for a reason. Not necessarily good things make that change happen for a positive reason. But yeah, I am a big believer in it.
[11:28] Darren Jamieson:
Was there one particular person or one particular incident when you were being cared for when you weren’t able to go out and work that made you think this is what I want to get into? Did that person’s what I’d like to aspire to or be a bit like them?
[11:47] Paul Chambers:
To be honest I don’t know. It was just a lot of time with my own thoughts at home, with the wife helping in and out of work and other family members coming to help where needed.
[12:02] Paul Chambers:
So it didn’t really come from that to be honest. I’m not really sure where it came from. I just know that I didn’t want to for 20 to 30 years go back into what I was doing. I wanted to do something different.
[12:19] Paul Chambers:
So for 16 years for example I was in the same sales company. And you can get, you can get quite institutionalised being in the same place for such a long period of time.
[12:28] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[12:34] Paul Chambers:
So I think once I’d come out of that space and tried other areas I think that’s then made me think more about what is it I want to do.
[12:44] Darren Jamieson:
It is, that makes sense. It is sounding quite spiritual and I’m not, but I wanted to ask, are you a religious person at all or not?
[12:52] Paul Chambers:
Absolutely not. No.
[12:54] Darren Jamieson:
Wow.
[12:54] Paul Chambers:
No. Which makes it even more profound I suppose in terms of my journey and how it’s took me.
[13:01] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[13:04] Darren Jamieson:
Thanks. I have to say personally, and this is no disrespect to carers because they do an absolutely amazing job. They work hard. They work joyously. They work long hours. It’s not a job I could personally do.
[13:19] Darren Jamieson:
I think it takes someone really strong to do a care, physical care, personal care role.
[13:26] Paul Chambers:
I think the carers across the whole spectrum of professional carers, they don’t get the reputation or the play even that they deserve for the role.
[13:47] Paul Chambers:
When you’re in it every day and you see how hard they work, you think, wow. I know sometimes perceptions of being a carer until you’ve been in a position yourself is, well, that’s an easy job. I can sit down and I can chat and I can have a cup of tea.
[14:11] Paul Chambers:
And then, as I say, living it is absolutely not the case. They don’t have time. They barely have time to have breaks, to clean, everything else. So that wasn’t a particular role I wanted to go into.
[14:25] Paul Chambers:
But there was, I just felt that there was something, there was space for me to fit in there. And that just happened to be using the skills that I had from my sales to be able to do that role and do it successfully.
[14:41] Paul Chambers:
And build up good relationships with families and the residents. They’re almost like an extended family to the home in essence.
[14:56] Paul Chambers:
Get them involved in the home, get them involved in what’s happening in everyone’s life. Tell them the sort of programmes that are going on in the home that will help their loved ones.
[15:05] Paul Chambers:
Like we’ve recently started cognitive stimulation therapy.
[15:12] Paul Chambers:
And that’s a programme that’s particularly for people living with dementia who are at the stages of mild to moderate dementia.
[15:23] Paul Chambers:
So there is still some cognitive abilities there, just need to unearth what it is within the brain to get that brain firing.
[15:36] Paul Chambers:
Prolong, as I say, hopefully prolong the dementia for as long as it possibly can by keeping that brain active.
[15:47] Paul Chambers:
It’s like, the best context for me to explain how therapy works is it’s like a gym exercise for the brain. So it keeps those electrons firing.
[16:02] Paul Chambers:
Tries to overcome some of the gaps that are in the channels in the cells in the brain and all of that comes as part of my fascination for how the brain works.
[16:15] Paul Chambers:
Brain’s very complex. Anything to do with neuro is complex.
[16:21] Paul Chambers:
The way dementia works in the brain and the build-up seems like it should be a simple fix. You stop these proteins from building up in the brain and these tangles and ultimately they don’t then starve that part of the brain from the blood and the oxygen that it needs to continue driving.
[16:49] Paul Chambers:
Sounds easy, but it’s taking a long time and we’re still waiting ultimately for that cure to happen.
[16:55] Darren Jamieson:
I see a lot of ads on social media for games like word games and mahjong, various different puzzle games and they all promote themselves with the same possible benefit that it keeps your mind active and staves off dementia. Is there truth to that then that things like this can help?
[17:19] Paul Chambers:
There are no, as far as I’m aware and my knowledge, I’m not an expert as such.
[17:28] Paul Chambers:
There are ways in which you can. It’s the same with everything. It’s eating better. It’s doing exercise.
[17:39] Paul Chambers:
It’s not smoking. It’s keeping an eye on your blood sugar if you’ve got diabetes.
[17:44] Paul Chambers:
It’s all those sort of things that we deem to be obvious if you like in terms of paths. Not everybody chooses those paths, but it seems to be obvious that if I smoke then it’s not going to be good for my health, etcetera, etcetera.
[17:57] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah, we all sort of know that, but a lot of us ignore it.
[18:00] Paul Chambers:
Yeah. Yeah, basically. So whilst I don’t think it’s been proven to help, I think it’s a case of a bit like say with legs. If you sit down, your mobility is going to be impaired potentially if you’re sitting down for long periods of time all the time.
[18:24] Paul Chambers:
That is going to impact on muscle movements and your legs. So it’s like the old saying isn’t it, move it or lose it.
[18:28] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[18:32] Paul Chambers:
So if you don’t move your legs, you’re going to lose some. So it’s keeping the physical stimulation there. Well, how I see it, it’s only the same context to the brain rather than the legs.
[18:42] Paul Chambers:
So if you don’t keep the brain active and there’s no stimulation, then it’s all just going to exasperate the process, if you like, in the brain.
[19:06] Paul Chambers:
So I believe there is truth in it in respect of it can’t harm, it can’t make the process worse by keeping the brain active. It must somehow make some sort of difference.
[19:19] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah. I’m not sure this is a question that’s even possible to answer. What actually causes dementia in the first place?
[19:21] Paul Chambers:
Cause of dementia, very tricky. It’s a very tricky one.
[19:31] Darren Jamieson:
I thought it might be.
[19:31] Paul Chambers:
It is. We know, we know why. We know what happens in terms of the channels in the brain and the neurons, is there’s these proteins that aren’t shifted away as they should do as part of the normal process.
[19:50] Paul Chambers:
And as a result, these proteins and fats then stay around because they’re not getting filtered out.
[19:59] Paul Chambers:
So they then build up and as they build up they’re blocking channels to other areas of the brain and when it does that those areas of the brain then die because it’s like being strangled or starved for example.
[20:14] Paul Chambers:
So that is caused in terms of what starts this build-up of proteins and tangles is still a mystery.
[20:24] Paul Chambers:
Still there. It is still a mystery. Nobody actually knows.
[20:29] Darren Jamieson:
And once someone has been diagnosed with it, presumably it’s not reversible.
[20:36] to [30:04]
[20:36] Paul Chambers:
Once somebody has been diagnosed and bad things or memories or whatever process that individual has to go through. Sorry, I lost my train myself there. That’s apt.
[20:54] Paul Chambers:
Sorry Darren. Repeat the question for me. Sorry. I’ve gone blank. I’ve not had any lunch.
[21:01] Darren Jamieson:
Well, funnily enough, I was just saying once someone’s diagnosed with dementia, I presume it’s not reversible.
[21:09] Paul Chambers:
Like you say, once, better terminology, there is no reversing.
[21:19] Paul Chambers:
There is no solving the problem immediately with a magic wand in effect.
[21:29] Paul Chambers:
So why a diagnosis is particularly important though Darren with dementia is without the diagnosis families are still in limbo. They don’t actually know what’s happening to their loved one. All they know is that things are different, things are changing.
[21:48] Paul Chambers:
Now the difference between not having and having is when you get that final diagnosis and you know where you are, then you can put things in place for that support.
[22:03] Paul Chambers:
So until that diagnosis is there families don’t get the support that they need at all, which leaves them in no man’s land not knowing where to go.
[22:11] Paul Chambers:
When the diagnosis is given then there are signposts to support groups, people to talk to and all the rest that sort of goes with it. It’s only once that diagnosis is there.
[22:27] Darren Jamieson:
And I imagine getting diagnosed isn’t that easy as well because if you’ve got a loved one that’s, for want of a better phrase, getting on a bit and they’re getting a bit ratty, a bit cantankerous as my parents certainly did, maybe they’re a bit forgetful. That’s just them.
[22:46] Darren Jamieson:
How do you know the difference between somebody just getting a bit old, a bit ratty and a bit forgetful to somebody that’s got dementia? Like you say, we all forget where we put our keys down, where the remote control is for the telly.
[22:59] Darren Jamieson:
I’m forgetting stuff all the time. I’m forgetting the name of football players I’m watching.
[23:04] Paul Chambers:
I’m forgetting the conversation I’m having with you. Sorry.
[23:06] Darren Jamieson:
Exactly.
[23:08] Paul Chambers:
And Lucifer, but she does it again.
[23:13] Darren Jamieson:
So, oh dear. Yeah.
[23:16] Paul Chambers:
We’re watching a live diagnosis right here. A live diagnosis. Go ahead. Go ahead.
[23:22] Paul Chambers:
A live diagnosis. Sorry, Darren. So it is important and in terms of being able to get that diagnosis, you’ve hit the nail on the head, that is a big problem for others.
[23:38] Paul Chambers:
A lot of families are waiting 12 months before they can get this diagnosis. So if you can imagine caring for, looking after, whatever the case scenario is within the family environment, looking after someone who is a loved one that you’re worried about and they’re not in their normal, what you class as their normal frame of mind.
[24:01] Paul Chambers:
It might be behaviours. It might be forgetting things. It might be seeing things that aren’t there. People coming in that aren’t coming in. Anything like that.
[24:14] Paul Chambers:
It’s just the family are still having to live with that but not understanding why that’s happening. So it’s always a massive lift off the shoulders of families once that diagnosis comes through.
[24:23] Paul Chambers:
But you’re right, the length of time it takes to do that through GPs, GP referrals, other healthcare professionals that are involved, it is taking a very long time and that is part of the problem in society currently.
[24:45] Darren Jamieson:
I was going to say, how important is the diagnosis as well? Because I remember from my own mother, she was always very scatty. She would watch Quincy M.D. on TV twice in the day.
[24:59] Darren Jamieson:
She’d watch the first one where it was 1:00 in the afternoon on Gold and then she’d watch the repeat four hours later. It drove my dad mad.
[25:03] Darren Jamieson:
But we didn’t know that she had dementia until I remember my sister got a phone call because my mum was driving her two daughters, my nieces, who were probably about 13, 14 at the time.
[25:12] Darren Jamieson:
She was driving them somewhere in Newport. I think it was to a shop or a party at a Pizza Hut or something like that. And she got a phone call from one of her daughters saying, “Grandmother’s taken us, nanny’s taken us here, but she doesn’t know where she is or why she’s here.”
[25:28] Darren Jamieson:
And she’d driven there with her granddaughters and then just completely didn’t know why she was there or where she was and that was such a what’s going on.
[25:43] Paul Chambers:
Yeah. And that is another common symptom of dementia, is forgetting of times, places and even night and day, distinguishing the difference between night and day.
[25:59] Paul Chambers:
So that’s really common. Obviously, the most common symptom that I suppose people know with dementia is the forgetfulness. That is typically the main thing.
[26:14] Paul Chambers:
And when we’re saying things, it’s things that are most recent in terms of time spent, ie asking you a question 10 minutes ago, being asked the same question again 10 minutes later and then 10 minutes again later.
[26:38] Paul Chambers:
It’s process. It’s how the brain is processing the information and then the speed that it can process that information before you get a response.
[26:52] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah. So what does getting diagnosed actually do for you? How does it help?
[27:00] Paul Chambers:
It’s almost like ticking the box to be able to move forward.
[27:07] Paul Chambers:
Probably the simplest way I’ve been able to do it. Without that ticking of a box, you can’t get the help that you need.
[27:15] Paul Chambers:
Whether that’s social services professional, whether it’s an adult social care professional, whether that’s some case of a mental healthcare professional.
[27:24] Paul Chambers:
There are so many different vessels that could get involved in terms of determining the diagnosis and I think that’s where slowing down the system sometimes needs more than one and it’s that time frame to do it.
[27:40] Paul Chambers:
So that diagnosis is a weight lifted off the shoulders of family who are, what’s going on, no idea what’s happening with their loved one, to ah, that makes sense now, I understand it.
[27:56] Paul Chambers:
And if you don’t know about dementia, you don’t know what you don’t know until you’re thrown into a situation which typically with dementia is when a family is at crisis point and they don’t know what to do.
[28:10] Darren Jamieson:
But I know from my own perspective, from what my dad did, he kind of put it off as long as physically possible, mainly because of the cost of care.
[28:21] Darren Jamieson:
So he was looking around different care homes around the town. And from his understanding of it, we were looking at over £1,000 a week.
[28:33] Darren Jamieson:
So his option was keep mum there at home and try to cope himself or go to a care home where he’s going to end up spending money that he hasn’t got. So what can someone do when they’re in that position?
[28:48] Paul Chambers:
It’s always a really difficult one and it’s always something that I really empathise really with families because basically if you have assets, financial assets, house, savings, whatever that might be, and that equates to over £23,000.
[29:14] Paul Chambers:
Which most people will probably have at that age.
[29:16] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah. Yeah.
[29:19] Paul Chambers:
Then anything over that amount that’s in the bank, so to speak, they’re expected to self-fund and go and look at homes as your dad did at that time.
[29:34] Paul Chambers:
Now, where finances aren’t there, enough money for care for a care setting, this is where social services come into play and will support.
[29:52] Paul Chambers:
Sorry. Lost it again.
[29:59] Darren Jamieson:
Again, diagnosis in action.
[29:59] Paul Chambers:
Diagnosis in action. I know. I know. It’s not really good.
[30:04] Paul Chambers:
Not a good fit.
[30:12] to [40:47]
[30:12] Paul Chambers:
So the people that I think struggle the most in my opinion from my experience are families that have more than £23,000 but marginally, say for, I can say £23,000 to £30,000.
[30:29] Paul Chambers:
Now the difference between the threshold where local authorities get involved, things like funding, has to be at that level.
[30:38] Paul Chambers:
So what does someone do if they’re at £30,000 that can’t afford to self-fund themselves because clearly that money, that difference, that gap will be a matter of weeks in terms of funding being depleted.
[31:01] Paul Chambers:
Very puts them in a real hard position because they can’t afford permanent residency for their loved one, but then they’re not in a position where they can get that help financially from local authorities.
[31:17] Paul Chambers:
And that puts them in a different position because the only option they have really if their loved one needs supporting outside of the home is to quickly spend that difference of money.
[31:33] Paul Chambers:
Which might be, I say £30,000 as an example, whatever £7,000 difference, but if the family’s got say £60,000 you’ve still got a similar problem that’s going to rear its ugly head in a matter of weeks, months.
[31:51] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[31:52] Paul Chambers:
So it’s what the families do. It’s a real divide and a real gap between those who are self-funding and have money but obviously not enough money to fund for a period of time and those that haven’t got the money.
[32:09] Paul Chambers:
So it’s those middle ground families that ultimately get penalised in effect for having that saving because they need to spend it first before they get help.
[32:25] Paul Chambers:
And you perhaps do feel sorry particularly for families that have worked hard all their life, worked since they were, I don’t know, 15, 16, right up until into their 60s and beyond, that have built, which is exactly what my dad did.
[32:43] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[32:43] Paul Chambers:
Yeah. Built all the security, having a house, thinking that, oh, this is a good idea, wonderful, you can pass it on to the generations, the kids love it, down the lines.
[32:51] Paul Chambers:
But this is simply not the case I think in the current climate that we’re in.
[33:01] Paul Chambers:
It’s almost, don’t quote me on it, it’s almost like why own your own house because you’re only going to get it taken up later in life.
[33:11] Paul Chambers:
So it almost makes you a little bit bitter because it’s almost like well, I paid for all my care, but then there’s other residents for example in the home that are protected by the local authorities.
[33:29] Paul Chambers:
So it hasn’t impacted them in the same way as families who are self-funded and that’s where I really struggle to get my head round in society how that gap is such a large gap.
[33:44] Darren Jamieson:
And of course with a black hole in between, with the way lifespans are increasing, the way we are an ageing population, that situation is only going to go one way. It’s only going to get worse.
[33:53] Darren Jamieson:
You said that you don’t think it’s right the way it works right now. The problem’s going to get even greater. What’s the solution?
[34:04] Paul Chambers:
Oh gosh. If I knew the solution to that, I wouldn’t be doing what I’m doing now.
[34:09] Paul Chambers:
No, what is the solution? Everyone has their own ideas I suppose as to what would be a best fit generally.
[34:20] Paul Chambers:
I mean personally I think there’s not enough support from the government particularly with dementia.
[34:32] Paul Chambers:
Particularly not just dealing with someone that’s just in the latter years of their life and might forget the keys or the remote control. You’re talking on a completely different level of support that’s needed.
[34:47] Paul Chambers:
Greater support for the increase, the amount of stimulation that people actually need from all aspects of sensory, from their sight, from their hearing, from their taste. It affects all of the senses of course.
[35:12] Paul Chambers:
Even diets with nature and taste buds.
[35:18] Paul Chambers:
So a lot of our residents will find like a lot of sugar in their tea or their cornflakes, whatever that might be, or a lot more salt on their lunch.
[35:34] Paul Chambers:
The reason for that is as we get older anyway our tastes change, but with dementia it heightens that change.
[35:42] Paul Chambers:
So what would normally be a tasty meal for example, I don’t know, egg, chips and beans, I don’t know, what would normally be a normal meal, they are having to put more salt on it. It makes normal foods taste a lot blander than what they would normally taste.
[36:07] Paul Chambers:
So that’s why I think the choice of cakes would be preferred to something that’s safer and less tasteful on the palate.
[36:22] Paul Chambers:
So there’s just so much to think about when it comes to elderly care generally, or particularly with dementia.
[36:31] Darren Jamieson:
And in terms of the residents at your home, how are they typically funding their stays?
[36:45] Paul Chambers:
We have, to be honest, a mixture of both. Local authority funded residents. It’s probably, I’d say probably a 50/50 split for those that are self-funded.
[37:02] Paul Chambers:
It does make you look at your life and your assets and what the future may hold somewhat because whilst you want to pay and support your loved ones there, you also don’t want to deplete all the funds and not make their years of building it all worthless because obviously they’re not.
[37:37] Paul Chambers:
But on the financial perspective, having squirrelled all the money away and built everything up to then have it taken away on the basis of eligibility, I think it needs to change.
[37:54] Paul Chambers:
What that answer is I don’t have one but we just know that there needs to be change in the system somewhere.
[38:03] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah, you’re right. It doesn’t seem fair, does it? If somebody buys a house, saves, puts money away, and then someone else who doesn’t and squanders everything they’ve got, they both end up in exactly the same place.
[38:16] Darren Jamieson:
Just the person who saved is paying for it themselves. The person who squandered it is getting paid for by the state. It doesn’t seem equitable to me.
[38:24] Darren Jamieson:
And it doesn’t seem fair that the government seems quite happy with this, that that’s the way everything is happening. There’s just something completely wrong with that situation from my point of view.
[38:35] Paul Chambers:
Exactly the same. And it’s really hard when you’re talking to families because emotionally they’re not their normal during this crisis period.
[38:51] Paul Chambers:
So it’s really hard when you then throw finances into the mix and you’re saying to them, well, you’re over this limit. So you have to pay for everything.
[39:06] Paul Chambers:
And then the number one question that I always get from families is what happens when my money runs out?
[39:16] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[39:19] Paul Chambers:
And it’s almost a difficult one to answer because with dementia the process and the speed of what that journey takes the person on is very different from person to person.
[39:38] Paul Chambers:
With some people it can traverse very, very quickly. So all these changes are becoming more and more noticeable every day, to a period, or really, really slow progress.
[39:53] Paul Chambers:
And with some of our residents here you could sort of have quite a lucid conversation for a period of time and not know any difference. You wouldn’t even probably notice that it’s had the edge.
[40:07] Paul Chambers:
If they were to go away from that resident and then come back to them, say an hour later, then that noticeable difference would be there.
[40:17] Paul Chambers:
The repetitive will kick in. You might get a hello, who are you, where have you come from, nice to see you today, but I’ve already seen you. Hello again.
[40:28] Paul Chambers:
So that process can be very quick. It can be very slow. It could be 12 months. It could be 12 years. Nobody knows. Nobody knows.
[40:40] Paul Chambers:
And I do get asked that question, what is the average lifespan of someone coming into a home with dementia? There is no answer.
[40:47] Paul Chambers:
No answer at all.
[40:49] to [50:52]
[40:49] Darren Jamieson:
I think my mum was eight years I think in a home with dementia.
[40:55] Paul Chambers:
Yeah. Which is, say, an average, is a long time. But that is typically a long time for someone with dementia.
[41:04] Darren Jamieson:
She had completely shut down at the end. She didn’t even recognise people. It’s so sad, isn’t it? Because, correct me if I’m wrong, but during that eight years, that must have been so difficult for your family as it is with others’ dementia.
[41:23] Darren Jamieson:
To me it feels like an almost a reoccurring loss of a loved one. So that constant grieving process even though the loved one was still there. Would that resonate with yourself?
[41:38] Paul Chambers:
Yeah, it would. Yeah, because when I saw her in there, it wasn’t her. It certainly wasn’t the person I remembered.
[41:46] Darren Jamieson:
But I think the worst part of it for me was that my dad, who was still, I say normal, he was never normal.
[41:57] Darren Jamieson:
But he would get the bus down and give her meals every day. Well, he’d drive originally, and then he shouldn’t have been driving. His eyesight was gone in the one eye and he was going in the other one.
[42:10] Darren Jamieson:
But he eventually admitted that he couldn’t drive anymore. So he’d get the bus down and he’d give her meals and he’d do it every single day and feed her, even though obviously they did that at the care home.
[42:19] Darren Jamieson:
Eventually he couldn’t do that anymore. And then my dad passed away with my mum still there and she had no idea that he was no longer visiting.
[42:26] Darren Jamieson:
She had no idea that he died. That’s probably the saddest thing from my point of view.
[42:35] Paul Chambers:
Absolutely is. It absolutely is.
[42:38] Paul Chambers:
We have had many couples, residents come into the home as married couples, married for 70 years, etcetera, etcetera, long life together.
[42:54] Paul Chambers:
And I can sort of resonate where you’re coming from, not on a personal level but from seeing the residents when they lose one or the other and then one of them’s left behind because it’s always a difficult one.
[43:09] Paul Chambers:
And it’s always the ongoing debate of should you tell the loved one with dementia that they’ve lost their nearest and dearest, their lifelong partner.
[43:24] Paul Chambers:
And is there a benefit to telling them at this stage as to where they are in their journey?
[43:32] Paul Chambers:
Some might say morally the person should be told and should know and others might say no, don’t tell them because they’ll then be reliving it over and over again and asking the same question and every time they ask it they become more and more anxious and then that affects them.
[43:54] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[43:57] Paul Chambers:
More in terms of exasperating the dementia. I’m sort of, I sit on the fence.
[44:06] Paul Chambers:
I think it depends on the individual, on the family and any personal preferences.
[44:17] Paul Chambers:
But that’s always a real hard one to know what the right answer is to do for someone, if that makes sense.
[44:26] Darren Jamieson:
No, it definitely does. I genuinely don’t know whether my mum was told or not because I’ve got two older sisters that were dealing with most of it.
[44:33] Darren Jamieson:
So I don’t know if she was told. Genuinely don’t know. I imagine she probably wasn’t because I don’t think she’d have understood language anyway.
[44:49] Paul Chambers:
Would you, in your position, would you have wanted?
[44:57] Darren Jamieson:
Want to know if I thought she could understand it, yes. But I don’t think she could have.
[45:05] Paul Chambers:
So you’re more, you’re more told to say not say anything because you lack capacity to understand. Is that what you’re saying?
[45:14] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah. Yeah.
[45:15] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah. And we wouldn’t have known if she’d understood it. She might have understood it perfectly, but she wasn’t able to voice that, to show that.
[45:26] Darren Jamieson:
So it could have been the horrible scenario if we told her, she understood it and she was tormented inside and couldn’t show us. That wouldn’t have been nice and we’d never know.
[45:38] Paul Chambers:
And this is where the is it right, is it wrong, comes into play.
[45:44] Paul Chambers:
There’s two different grounds to look at, isn’t it?
[45:47] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[45:50] Paul Chambers:
You’ve got a moral ground that actually it’s her husband, she needs to be told. Also is there a benefit in telling her at the stage in her life where she is? Is it going to make the situation worse? So there is that moral ground. I don’t know.
[46:13] Darren Jamieson:
There’s a question for you because when my dad was looking at care homes he looked at maybe eight, ten different care homes and they were all of varying qualities.
[46:24] Darren Jamieson:
When someone is looking for a care home for their loved ones, you hear a lot of horror stories. There’s a lot of videos and documentaries that have behind the scenes of horror care homes, that kind of thing. We’ve all seen it.
[46:37] Darren Jamieson:
How can you choose somewhere that’s right? And how do you know, what do you look for to know this is the place that you’re going to be happy to put your father or your mother till the end of their time?
[46:49] Paul Chambers:
Really good question. Really good question.
[46:53] Darren Jamieson:
Oh, thank you.
[46:56] Paul Chambers:
I put myself in the shoes of families when they’re home hunting.
[47:08] Paul Chambers:
It would be, I think the initial feeling firstly when you walk through the door, that’s the first thing.
[47:16] Paul Chambers:
Because it’s a bit like when you’re buying a new house, a new property, you know, big investment. You usually get some sort of feeling, some sort of vibe when you walk through that door, don’t you, whether it’s a house, and I find that’s the same in a care home.
[47:39] Paul Chambers:
So what’s the vibe like when you walk through? Are you being approached? Are you being seen? Is someone coming effectively to look after you, to deal with you?
[47:55] Paul Chambers:
How are the staff interacting with residents? That I think is very important.
[48:06] Paul Chambers:
So I would always look around and almost be a little bit nosy. So how is that carer dealing with that loved one?
[48:14] Paul Chambers:
Is it done with dignity?
[48:23] Paul Chambers:
Is it done with care? Is it done with patience? All of these factors I think come into play.
[48:30] Paul Chambers:
So staff is a big one because vibes are very important and if there’s something saying to you I don’t like the way the carer handled that resident or the way this was done or the way that was done then straight away it’s going to set you back a bit.
[48:55] Paul Chambers:
I think a good care home is you go in and there’s a good vibe. The staff are all getting on not just with each other but with the residents.
[49:01] Paul Chambers:
The whole family, the whole home has to be involved right through. And when I say being involved I mean being involved and seeing the residents and helping the residents if they need help.
[49:12] Paul Chambers:
So it’s not just left to the carers. So anyone from housekeeping to kitchen to activities to whatever the role is in the home, everyone has a part to play.
[49:25] Paul Chambers:
If they see somebody who’s perhaps a little bit distressed or a little bit wandering or anything then just to stop and say are you okay or should we sit down, just have a chat and a cup of tea.
[49:41] Paul Chambers:
So it’s not left just to the carer role and everyone else stands around. It’s everybody’s part in the home to play.
[49:49] Paul Chambers:
Not everybody necessarily can do things like personal care or other areas, but everyone provides some sort of at least emotional support if that’s needed.
[49:56] Paul Chambers:
So that I think is a good warning sign.
[50:04] Paul Chambers:
Good relationships with residents’ families is really important. So building that trust, building that bond, building that relationship.
[50:18] Paul Chambers:
So it literally is so the families are then an extension of the home rather than people who just visit.
[50:26] Paul Chambers:
So I think the more families that can be involved with the home, the better. And I think that’s good for the home as well because families then get talking to each other about their situations.
[50:38] Paul Chambers:
So then it creates other wider groups, circles, friendships inside of the home from everyone being together and sharing similar experiences.
[50:52] Paul Chambers:
So, staff, the environment, smells.
[50:59] to [01:00:08]
[50:59] Darren Jamieson:
Smells. I was thinking smells.
[51:03] Paul Chambers:
Yes. And I think stereotypically when you think of a care home that could be the first thing that comes to mind.
[51:12] Paul Chambers:
Do you walk through the door and get a waft before you even start looking around the home? Is usually a good giveaway.
[51:27] Paul Chambers:
How both the residents and the staff present themselves. Do the residents that are already living there, do they look clean, looked after, shaved and tidy.
[51:43] Paul Chambers:
Not got yesterday’s tea down the front of them still, or whatever would certainly be signs.
[51:49] Paul Chambers:
What activities have they got?
[51:56] Paul Chambers:
What’s the menu look like? Are there options in the menus?
[52:01] Paul Chambers:
Where does personal care take place? There’s so many different areas to look at.
[52:11] Paul Chambers:
But yeah, I think my main ones would be environment, staff, families, how that bond is.
[52:21] Paul Chambers:
You usually get quite an early good indication of whether there’s quite a neat bond or whether there’s no bond there at all and it’s literally residents living in the home but there’s no other integration other than that.
[52:38] Paul Chambers:
I mean we do a lot with our local community. We have good relationships with lots of the support networks, the hubs, the mental health meeting centre.
[52:58] Paul Chambers:
And we all are very good at working together for the greater good in the community.
[53:05] Paul Chambers:
So quite often families will talk to me and say such and such at Age UK or care and she’ll go, oh yeah, they’re really good, very nice, and it’s nice to know the names all come together. So I think that gives comfort to people.
[53:25] Paul Chambers:
If someone’s come to me and they speak to somebody at Age UK for example and you need to speak to Paul, he’s dementia as well, and that’s how it sort of works really.
[53:40] Paul Chambers:
We all help each other. And if somebody is looking, for example, for a companion at home, then there’s places we can signpost to. Home’s not quite ready for their loved one. Quite at that stage.
[54:00] Paul Chambers:
So it’s nice to be able to support the family as a whole, as a whole group, holistically, both of you, and support in any way we can rather than saying can’t help with that or help with that.
[54:17] Paul Chambers:
So yeah, it does make difficult, but yeah, those I would say would be the main steps to look at within a care home.
[54:25] Darren Jamieson:
Okay. Yeah.
[54:26] Darren Jamieson:
I think that’s going to be helpful for people. Thank you.
[54:29] Darren Jamieson:
We’re almost out of time, but there’s one question you kind of asked yourself earlier on and we didn’t get a full answer to this and I have to circle back to it. I hate that circle back buzz.
[54:43] Paul Chambers:
Yeah. You said the curve, doesn’t it? The pandemic.
[54:46] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah. You said you get asked the question, what happens when the money runs out?
[54:51] Darren Jamieson:
Now, if somebody is in the home, say they’ve got £27,000 or they have to self-fund for a bit. When their money runs out, do they then have to find a new home or do they then go on to government funding and can stay in your home?
[55:06] Paul Chambers:
That depends on care provider themselves. I think every particularly private care home provider operates very differently depending on what their policies are etcetera.
[55:24] Paul Chambers:
Our policy at Willow Bank is we would not want any resident to have to leave our home.
[55:33] Paul Chambers:
They’re settled, they’re comfortable, they’re well, they’re happy.
[55:40] Paul Chambers:
Then in our head, there’s no reason why you would want to undo all of that work, if you like, in terms of that individual being settled by then picking them up and putting them in a completely different setting with a whole new place.
[55:58] Paul Chambers:
A whole new interface to look at. Typically a whole new bunch of faces and not having a clue what’s going on.
[56:06] Paul Chambers:
It would be hard enough not being able to cope.
[56:12] Paul Chambers:
To be in that situation generally anyway as a person because it’s all new place. It’s still a strange place. It’s still faces. So it would make you feel a little bit anxious normally.
[56:22] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah. We as people don’t like change at the best of times.
[56:28] Paul Chambers:
Exactly. So pulling that down with dementia just exasperates it and makes it worse and would certainly impact on mental health and would certainly impact on dementia in a non-positive way because there are such big changes.
[56:44] Paul Chambers:
So what I’m going to say is I suppose in our perspective it’s not in our interest, it’s not in the resident’s interest and if it’s not in the family’s interest then that person stays.
[56:58] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah. And gets funded at what level through the local authority.
[57:02] Darren Jamieson:
But I guess some care homes then, this will happen though, that this is something people need to look out for.
[57:08] Paul Chambers:
Yeah. Some care homes, the money will run out and I’ve seen this happen and heard it happen many a time, but then that person’s then had to move on because there’s no money.
[57:17] Darren Jamieson:
Wow.
[57:22] Paul Chambers:
So I don’t agree with that personally because of the negative impact. If someone’s only been in the home for a week, couple of weeks, for example, fine.
[57:36] Paul Chambers:
Or if someone’s settled, they’ve got their own little bit of friends in the home, they’re happy, wants to stay where they are, then why would you?
[57:49] Darren Jamieson:
Well, I don’t know why they would because it’s purely down to finances at the end of the day, isn’t it? And they want extra room and the local authority only offering X and there’s no gel with that.
[58:04] Paul Chambers:
So unfortunately that then ultimately impacts on that individual as well as the home finances. So what I’m trying to say is for the sake of a few quid why would you put someone through that?
[58:19] Darren Jamieson:
Yeah.
[58:20] Darren Jamieson:
No, I agree. I agree. It’s a bit of a sombre end, but it’s a bit of a sombre subject. So if anyone’s listening to this thinking, I’d love to find out more about Paul, I’d love to find out more about your care home. What’s the best way for them to reach out to you and where can they find you?
[58:38] Paul Chambers:
You can find us, Tiddesley Wood Lane in Pershore. Very nice rural area.
[58:46] Paul Chambers:
Part of the CLC group, family-run business, family morals.
[58:51] Paul Chambers:
The 11 homes, we’re the first of the 11 homes to get two-star dementia accreditation, which we only actually got the internet last week, so we’re really, really proud and want to share that.
[59:10] Paul Chambers:
Willow Bank Residential Dementia Care Home in Pershore, okay. And my name is Paul Chambers and I’m the dementia and wellbeing lead.
[59:18] Paul Chambers:
And I’m happy to speak to anyone regardless of whether they’re looking at Willow Bank as a suitable care home.
[59:26] Paul Chambers:
If anybody wants to make contact with me by the home I’m more than happy to chat and help in whatever areas. If it’s just advice, if it’s just someone to talk through something, then I’m here regardless of whether Willow Bank is okay.
[59:43] Darren Jamieson:
Thank you very much Paul. I will put the link for the website and the contact details below the podcast.
[59:51] Darren Jamieson:
So anyone listening to this, scroll down on YouTube or have a look down below on iTunes or Spotify or Amazon, whichever you’re on, and you’ll find the links to the care home and get in touch with Paul below in the description.
[01:00:00] Darren Jamieson:
Paul, thank you very much for being a guest on the podcast. It’s been absolutely fascinating.
[01:00:08] Paul Chambers:
Pleasure. Thank you for having me on.
