Darren: Dave, welcome to the podcast!
Dave: Thank you, Darren. Glad to be here.
Darren: Before we dive in, I just want to point something out for anyone watching this on YouTube. You might think I’ve got ketchup on my face—I haven’t. Last night, while putting in my teeth aligners, I somehow managed to cut my own face with my fingernail. It’s a manly injury, I know. I’d love to say I was defending a pregnant woman from a knife attack, but alas, it’s just me being clumsy.
Dave: That’s definitely a memorable introduction!
Darren: Let’s crack on with the important stuff. Dave, tell me about ego in business. What do you mean when you talk about business ego?
Dave: I think everyone has an ego, but it manifests differently for each person. It’s about whether you’re aware of it and how it plays a role in your life and business. Some people manage their ego well, while others let it lead them—often without realizing it.
One of the clearest examples is in conversations. You’ll notice some people listen to respond, not to understand. They’ll ask a question, but instead of exploring your answer, they jump in with their own story. For example, you say, “I went to Spain,” and instead of asking follow-up questions like “Where in Spain? What did you enjoy most?” they say, “Oh, I went to Spain, too, and I did this and that.”
It’s not always intentional, but it shifts the focus back onto them.
Darren: That’s exactly what I learned in an exercise during a program called Ascentive. We had to practice active listening by responding without ever saying “I.” For instance, if someone said they went on holiday to Disneyland, instead of saying, “Oh, I went there too,” we’d ask, “What did you enjoy most? What rides did you go on?” It’s harder than you’d think, but it transforms how you communicate. The person feels heard and valued because you’re genuinely interested in them.
Dave: Absolutely. It’s similar to techniques I’ve come across in building rapport. For example, the CIA or what I call “spy school” uses a method of asking two questions and then confirming. If someone says, “I’ve been to Spain,” you ask, “Where did you go?” and “What was your favorite part?” Then you confirm, “Yes, Spain is amazing.” This creates a connection and makes them feel like the hero of the conversation.
Darren: As a business owner or networker, listening can be difficult. You ask someone a question, and halfway through their answer, you realize you’ve already tuned out. How can someone avoid this?
Dave: It starts with understanding why you’re asking the question. If you’re at a networking event or meeting, remember your purpose—whether it’s to grow your business, find partnerships, or learn something new. Once you have that reason, you’ll naturally want to pay attention because the answer benefits you. For example, if I ask what kind of clients someone works with, their answer can help me understand their business or tailor my pitch. When you tie your question to a goal, it becomes easier to listen and retain information.
Darren: How easy is it for someone to learn this skill?
Dave: It’s simple in theory but requires practice. Start with small steps. For example, before a networking event, plan two questions you want to ask everyone you meet. Over time, this becomes a habit. It’s like the “red car theory.” When you start thinking about red cars, you suddenly see them everywhere. Similarly, if you focus on asking better questions, you’ll notice opportunities to engage and strengthen relationships.
Darren: At events, how can you tell if someone is genuinely interested or just being polite?
Dave: Great question. One way is by observing their engagement. Are they asking you questions? Are they steering the conversation toward you? You can also use your questions to qualify interest. For example, if you ask about the size of their business and they say, “It’s just me,” but you’re looking for larger teams, you can politely wrap up and move on. Similarly, someone showing genuine interest will often try to make you feel good—they’ll reciprocate your questions and be fully present in the conversation.
Darren: What happens when someone does the opposite—interrupts and makes everything about themselves?
Dave: It can be detrimental. We all know someone like that—the person you avoid at events because they drain your energy. On the other hand, there are people you love seeing because they make you feel great. It all comes down to how they listen and engage.
Darren: Let’s talk about ghosting. How do you handle it when someone seems interested but then disappears?
Dave: Ghosting is tough, but it’s often an answer in itself. If you’ve followed up a couple of times and still get no response, move on. It could be timing, politeness, or something else, but you can’t dwell on it.
Darren: You’ve coached rugby. What parallels do you draw between coaching rugby players and coaching businesses?
Dave: In rugby, you have to communicate clearly and concisely, especially when it’s cold and everyone’s tired. You need to build trust, identify leaders, and ensure everyone buys into the team’s goals. In business, it’s the same. You can’t do it all alone. You need a team you trust and the humility to admit when something isn’t working.
Darren: How important is it to check in with clients?
Dave: It’s crucial. Many businesses lose clients because they assume everything’s fine. A simple call to ask, “How’s everything going?” can uncover opportunities or prevent issues.
Darren: Getting feedback can be uncomfortable, especially when it’s critical. How do you create an environment where people feel comfortable giving you honest feedback?
Dave: It’s all about framing. Instead of asking for “critical” or “constructive” feedback, which can sound negative, position it as a learning opportunity. Say something like, “I’m looking to improve as a business owner. Could you help me by answering a few questions about your experience with me?” This makes it less about judgment and more about collaboration. People are more likely to open up when they feel like they’re helping rather than critiquing.
Darren: We’ve talked about checking in with clients – but what about unexpected gestures? How do those impact relationships?
Dave: They’re incredibly powerful. For example, I once received a handwritten card from a charity thanking me for my support. It wasn’t tied to a specific milestone or event—it was just a kind gesture. That card meant a lot to me and deepened my connection to them.
In business, doing something similar—like sending a small gift or card—can make a big difference. It shows thoughtfulness and builds loyalty.
Darren: What drives you to coach businesses?
Dave: It comes from my mum, who passed away when I was 20 – she had an incredible ability to uplift people. That inspired me to help others in my own way.I also dedicate a third of my time and money to charity. It’s my way of giving back and making a difference.
Darren: Dave, this has been an amazing conversation. For anyone listening, how can they get in touch with you?
Dave: You can find me at cheshirebusinesscoaching.com or on LinkedIn.
Darren: Thank you so much, Dave. I’ll include the links in the show notes. It’s been a pleasure having you on the podcast.
Dave: Thanks, Darren. It’s been a joy.
