[00:45] Darren Jamieson: On this week’s episode of The Engaging Marketeer, I am under a bit of pressure. I’m interviewing Niraj Kapur, who gets offered to be on podcasts all the time, rejects most of them, and says he doesn’t want to be asked the same old boring questions about sales, LinkedIn, and how you sell on LinkedIn. Luckily, I don’t have any questions, so let’s see how this one goes.
Do you think it’s different being an Indian in sales compared to being a white guy in sales? Do you ever lean into stereotypes in sales?
[01:18] Niraj Kapur: The second part is more challenging because that’s more about humor, and humor can be very hit-and-miss unless you really know the person you’re speaking to. I took a risk there asking that question. In London, I never really felt Indian, which is why I loved working there. It was quite rare that I was made to feel uncomfortable because of the color of my skin—people just get on with it. But when you’re working in Northern Ireland, it’s completely different. Almost every single event, without exception, it’s all white people. For them, diversity means hiring a white woman—that’s their idea of diversity. To me, that’s not diversity.
There are so many people from different backgrounds. By the way, just to clarify, I don’t think you should ever hire someone of color just to tick a box—I don’t like that. It’s a bad way of doing business. I think you should hire a person of color if they have a different perspective, a different attitude, new insight—something valuable they can contribute.
I’ve spent 30 years of my life working in London, five years traveling the world, I’ve written three books, done a TED Talk, and I’m the only LinkedIn Top Voice in Northern Ireland. I’m the only person who gets invited to LinkedIn’s headquarters, and yet hardly anybody here will talk to me. I find that shocking—genuinely shocking.
The work I get tends to come from Dublin, London, Europe, and North America. Don’t get me wrong—a lot of people reject me because I insist on charging for my services and I’m at the higher end of the market. I totally understand that; you have to be realistic about business.
At the same time, I get very frustrated when our local Northern Ireland Chamber of Commerce is just all white, and they couldn’t care less about cultural diversity. It upset me recently when we had all these statements about racism, saying, “Racism has no place,” with the usual cliché nonsense corporate companies do to try to appear good.
It’s like when American companies say, “Black Lives Matter,” and then do nothing at all. They don’t really care—they just say it to sound impressive.
In Northern Ireland, people tend to do business with people they know rather than those who are really good at their jobs. I find I have to be twice as good as everybody else just to get the slightest bit of recognition. I was very frustrated at first, but now I look at it as a challenge and an opportunity to show them how good I am.
[04:27] Darren: Does it upset you that you don’t get the recognition?
[04:29] Niraj: It does upset me, but not as much as it used to. Six months ago, I found out I have autism. I’d suspected it for a while. The two ADHD tests I took came out positive, but one thing about autism is that we get triggered by certain things. Unfairness and lack of closure are big triggers. We need answers.
When people reject you and don’t tell you why, it’s frustrating. In Northern Ireland, they often don’t give a reason—they don’t even talk to you. What’s frustrating is that I have 30 years of experience, three books, a TED Talk, and I’m a LinkedIn Top Voice. Yet, they’ll hire someone with a few years of experience, no books, no international speaking experience, just because they’re friends with someone’s husband.
It’s the unfairness that triggers autism. I’ve worked with a therapist to manage these triggers. When you get angry in business, it’s dangerous. In a small community, even one bad reaction can have negative repercussions.
[06:05] Darren: My son was diagnosed with autism years ago. He’s convinced he doesn’t have autism and explains in great detail what he thinks he has. But he reacts strongly to things he sees as unfair. He once stabbed a bus driver with a pen because the driver passed by a student waiting at a stop.
He’s mellowed a lot since then and controls his emotions better, but it’s still there under the surface. Did you have similar issues growing up, like struggling with social cues or communication problems?
[07:15] Niraj: Nobody knew what the problem was. I knew something was wrong, but nobody knew what autism or ADHD was back then. A good example: I’d sit in class and think, Why am I learning this stuff? Irish history? Potatoes? What good is this going to do me?
I’d go home and ask my father, “Why am I learning this? I’m not against hard work—I just want to do something useful.” My father had the typical Indian immigrant mentality: shut up, work hard, make money, save money, have a good marriage, and take care of your kids.
Primary school was a joy, but high school was different. I experienced racism and vile name-calling. I’d argue back, and teachers would say, “Why can’t you just shut up? Why do you have to cause trouble?” Nobody understood me. My parents thought I was difficult, but I wasn’t—I just couldn’t process what was going on in my head.
Every teacher I knew hated their job, and nothing seemed to make sense. Anytime I questioned anything, teachers, the headmaster, or my father would tell me to shut up. It affected my confidence. I’d withdraw and keep to myself, which isn’t healthy for a teenager.
My goal was to get out of Northern Ireland as quickly as possible. The only things that brought me joy were going to the movies and listening to cheesy ’80s rock music. MTV was exploding at the time, and it was a world of escapism for me.
[09:09] Darren: You decided not to study for exams and instead saved up money to record music. You believed being rich and famous would solve all your problems, which is something I mistakenly believed about becoming a film director.
[09:17] Niraj: Exactly. I spent 20 years as a screenwriter and three years in Hollywood. I sold several screenplays, had them optioned, and even had a movie released in 2012. I sold many children’s scripts and worked on TV movies.
Hollywood wasn’t what I imagined—it was cynical and far from glamorous. If you’re a nobody, people treat you like a nobody. It was a massive culture shock.
[10:49] Darren: What made you realize you were good at selling?
[10:53] Niraj: I didn’t realize it until later in life. At the start of my career, I was above average because I worked hard and cared. But I didn’t have a boss who told me to read books, attend conferences, or seek coaching. That held me back.
In 2011, during the recession, I lost my job. My wife at the time pushed me to aim for management roles, but I thought managers just sat in meetings all day. However, she insisted, and I eventually became a manager.
I got a coach, a mentor, and attended management and sales courses. That’s when I realized I’d been in this business for 15 years and knew nothing. It was eye-opening.
I started coaching my team and saw them improve. Helping someone go from a C-player to a B-player or even an A-player is one of the greatest feelings. That’s when I knew I loved sales—not for hitting targets, but for helping others succeed.
[12:53] Darren: It’s a common myth that people aren’t in sales or aren’t good at it. Everyone works in sales. Can anyone be taught to sell well?
[13:58] Niraj: People think you have to be extroverted, but 40% of my clients are introverts. Introverts are great at listening and thoughtful responses—qualities that make them excellent at sales.
Many of my clients suffer from imposter syndrome, especially women. They face confidence issues after long corporate careers, divorces, or children leaving home. They trust me because they know I won’t take advantage of them.
[16:07] Darren: Why is it that most people who experience imposter syndrome tend to be women?
[16:10] Niraj: As a woman, you sometimes feel the need to watch how you behave in the workplace. I don’t think it should be that way, but a lot of women feel they have to.
For example, if a director role comes up, a man who isn’t qualified will go for it, but a woman who’s often overqualified will hold herself back. If a man uses colorful language while addressing staff, nobody says anything. But if a woman does, she’s often called the b-word.
I’ve been lucky to have strong women in my life—my mother, grandmother, and my ex-wife. Most of my bosses have been women, and now my partner has two strong-minded daughters. I don’t have an ego problem when dealing with strong women. Unfortunately, many men do—they have fragile egos and can’t handle criticism from women.
[17:42] Darren: The term “imposter syndrome” makes it sound like it’s something wrong with women. Don’t you think men suffer from the opposite—fake confidence syndrome?
[18:15] Niraj: That’s an interesting perspective. Imposter syndrome is the term women use, so I frame my messaging around that. The opening sentence of my LinkedIn profile is, “I help you overcome imposter syndrome, ghosting, and sales objections.” I focus on the emotions because emotions drive action.
[18:51] Darren: That’s a great point. Many businesses focus on features rather than benefits. Nobody cares about your product or qualifications—they care about how it benefits them.
[19:24] Niraj: Exactly. The biggest mistake people make is not thinking about how to serve the customer. In 2022, I decided to stop selling and start serving. Instead of asking, “What must I close today?” I asked, “Who can I help today?”
It’s about building relationships and making people’s lives better. When you approach sales this way, it becomes more fulfilling.
[20:56] Darren: I’ve done a sales course called Asentiv, which focuses on building relationships and making regular contact with people. If someone only contacts you when they need something, you’re less likely to help them.
[21:54] Niraj: That’s true. Ghosting happens because people rush the sales process. They push to send a proposal just to hit their KPIs. I always schedule a follow-up before sending a proposal. If a client asks me to call back in three months, I say, “I’ll be happy to do that, but I’d like to stay in touch with valuable content in the meantime.” About 70% agree, and it keeps the relationship warm.
When I test people by objecting on price or delaying a decision, I watch how they react. If they panic or don’t follow up when they said they would, I won’t do business with them.
[25:00] Darren: Price objections are common. How do you handle them?
[26:09] Niraj: First, understand why they’re asking for a discount. It could be to impress their boss, because of budget constraints, or to test you. I ask, “Is there something I haven’t explained clearly?” I also recap their challenges and how my solutions address them.
If they persist, I’ll ask, “What have I missed?” This slows the conversation down and allows me to understand their concerns.
[28:42] Darren: That’s a great strategy. I often suggest removing parts of the service to reduce the price. For example, if we’re building a website, I might suggest they write their own content or source their own logo. They usually don’t want to, which reinforces the value of what we offer.
[30:05] Niraj: That’s a good last resort. I focus on understanding why they’re objecting. Sometimes I’ve rushed the process and missed something. You have to take responsibility and ask, “What could I have done better?”
[31:09] Darren: It’s risky doing business with friends. You don’t truly know someone’s character until you’ve paid them.
[31:43] Niraj: Exactly. People often overestimate their abilities, especially men. I’ve lost friendships over business deals because people weren’t honest or competent.
[33:16] Darren: How do you get feedback from clients who don’t choose you?
[33:20] Niraj: I avoid email because it can come across as passive-aggressive. I leave a LinkedIn voice note or video message. I say, “I understand how busy you are. If you’ve chosen someone else, that’s fine. I’d appreciate knowing what I could have done better.” This approach gets a much higher response rate.
[36:27] Darren: Do you use video for other parts of the sales process?
[36:30] Niraj: Yes. I post a video on LinkedIn every week. It’s not highly produced—it’s just me holding up a phone. But it establishes credibility and authority. Social media isn’t about being the best; it’s about standing out.
Most of my competition doesn’t use video, which gives me an advantage.
[39:33] Darren: You’ve worked hard to create a lifestyle you enjoy. It’s inspiring, but there’s a lot of nonsense on social media about overnight success.
[41:02] Niraj: Exactly. There’s too much exaggeration on platforms like Instagram. I focus on being authentic and providing common-sense advice.
[42:05] Darren: How can business owners identify LinkedIn coaches who are genuine versus those who are frauds?
[42:10] Niraj: Talk to them. Testimonials help, but a 15-minute conversation reveals a lot. Many so-called LinkedIn experts post about instant success but don’t back it up with real results.
[43:30] Darren: You’ve done a TEDx Talk. How did you find the process, and how has it helped your credibility?
[43:49] Niraj: I hired a TEDx expert and read two books: Talk Like TED by Carmine Gallo and TED Talks by Chris Anderson. I watched talks by Brené Brown, Simon Sinek, and Ken Robinson repeatedly to learn from the best.
The process was intense, but I wanted it badly. The talk has boosted my credibility. While the views haven’t been as high as I hoped, it led to a £3,000 speaking gig. I’ve also learned to detach from outcomes—you can’t control how things perform online.
[48:25] Darren: I had a similar experience with my TEDx Talk. It’s been great for my brand, but the views haven’t matched my expectations. Where can people find you if they want to connect or learn more?
[50:10] Niraj: LinkedIn is the best place—just send me a personalized invite. If you want to follow me, that’s fine, but if you want to build a relationship, take the time to personalize your message. You can also visit my website, nirajkapur.com, and contact me there.
[50:35] Darren: It’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me.
[50:40] Niraj: Thank you, Darren. I’ve really enjoyed this.
