[00:03]
Darren Jamieson: Is it actually different, or was it the case that you didn’t have to cover up at the time—that’s just what you’d been told, and that’s what you believed?
Corina Goetz: No, you had to cover up. They wouldn’t have even let you into the border.
[00:23]
Darren Jamieson: This week on Engaging Market, I am speaking with Corina Goetz about Saudi Arabia and Dubai, and how you can go out there to do business. What are the requirements, legalities, and opportunities, as well as what it means to be a woman doing business in these places? Because that is what Corina does—she advises people on working in Saudi Arabia, Dubai, and across the UAE. Corina, can you explain in a nutshell what it is you actually do and why?
[01:23]
Corina Goetz: It’s complex, but I’ll try. I help companies and individuals who have projects in the Middle East. Their teams might not be familiar with places like Saudi, UAE, or Qatar. I also work with people who have clients from that region and want to expand or strengthen relationships without making frequent trips. Relationships are everything there.
[02:35]
Corina Goetz: My background is in five-star hotels, where I worked with clients from the Middle East since the early 2000s. When I started, I didn’t speak any Arabic, nor did I have exposure to the culture, because I’m German. In my first job in London, people around me saw clients from the region as difficult, but I got on well with them because I took an interest in their culture. It just grew from there.
[04:21]
Corina Goetz: In 2011, I went to Saudi Arabia for the first time. It was a lot different back then. I had so many questions: What should I wear? What am I supposed to know? Back then, women had to cover up, and an hour before landing, women would go into the plane bathroom to change into an abaya and cover their hair.
[05:24]
Darren Jamieson: Is it really different now, or was it the case that you didn’t have to cover up back then?
Corina Goetz: No, you had to cover up; they wouldn’t even let you in otherwise.
[06:32]
Corina Goetz: Now, there’s a lot more focus on projects in Saudi. People still have questions, especially women, and I help answer them.
[07:00]
Darren Jamieson: How did Saudi Arabia change? When did that start, and why?
Corina Goetz: Change began slowly in 2015 with a change in rulership. King Salman took over, and around two years later, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman began implementing his vision for the country. The younger Saudi population, who are mostly under 35, wanted different things, and he understood that.
[11:29]
Darren Jamieson: Has there been any resistance or backlash to these changes?
Corina Goetz: I think there was some resistance initially, but the leadership managed it effectively. In 2017, a lot of prominent figures were charged with corruption and held at the Ritz Carlton. That event is sometimes called the “Night of the Long Knives.”
[14:57]
Darren Jamieson: You mentioned that Saudi is still more conservative than Dubai. What are the main differences?
Corina Goetz: Alcohol is still restricted in Saudi, except for diplomats. As a woman, you’d dress more conservatively. In Dubai, the dress code has relaxed significantly with more expatriates, but that’s not the case everywhere in the UAE, like Abu Dhabi.
[17:59]
Darren Jamieson: What are the key advantages of doing business in Saudi Arabia, particularly for women?
Corina Goetz: There’s a lot of opportunity with big projects happening in various industries. They need expertise, and the tax environment is favorable. It’s a unique experience, and yes, the pay is better, but you are expected to work hard for it.
[22:29]
Darren Jamieson: What advice do you have for people going to work in Saudi Arabia?
Corina Goetz: Go with an open mind. If you’re single, it’s great for a few years to make money and gain experience. For families, it’s a bit trickier because of the infrastructure needs for housing and schools, especially in emerging project areas.
[31:16]
Darren Jamieson: What kind of clients do you work with, and what assistance do you provide?
Corina Goetz: I work with a variety—law firms opening offices, hotel companies, individuals going for job interviews, and clients in London wanting to align strategies for Middle Eastern markets. Sometimes, it’s even about picking the right outfit.
[37:48]
Darren Jamieson: What could justify a half-billion-dollar residence?
Corina Goetz: Some of the properties they’re building are aimed at the ultra-wealthy, with incredible amenities, because they cater to a specific type of client.
[44:35]
Darren Jamieson: Why are top athletes like Ronaldo moving to Saudi if the stadiums aren’t even full?
Corina Goetz: It’s a combination of PR and tourism. For players, it’s also a safe environment with ample business opportunities, and they are treated well. Ronaldo’s family, for example, seems happy there.
[48:31]
Darren Jamieson: What skills are they looking for in Saudi Arabia?
Corina Goetz: There’s demand for construction, digital, data centers, and event safety roles. They hold many high-profile events during Riyadh Season, which runs from October to March, featuring major sports and cultural experiences.
[50:45]
Corina Goetz: There’s also a big push for sports now, aimed at improving public health and inspiring youth. Even women’s teams are paid on par with men in Saudi. It’s inspiring to see.
[53:27]
Darren Jamieson: How can people reach out to you if they’re interested in doing business in Saudi?
Corina Goetz: Connect with me on LinkedIn. My company is called Star-CAT (Consulting and Training) and offers various resources for people interested in the Middle East.
Darren Jamieson: I’ll include those links in the podcast description for anyone interested. Thank you, Corina.
